[L2Ork-dev] $0 weirdness

Sun Dec 6 05:03:38 UTC 2015

Albert,

Sorry it took me a while to respond--been busy with the OPERAcraft 
production. I hear what you're saying but there is no easy or graceful 
way to fix this without getting into ugly string resizing business which 
can be rather messy. Even then, we'd be breaking backwards compatibility 
since any kind of escaping (e.g. \# or similar) would not render 
properly on older pd. I agree this would still be better. I, however, 
wonder if I shouldn't simply introduce a -legacy flag and add this and 
iemgui position to a list of modifications that break backwards 
compatibility in favor of progress. This would be considerably easier to 
maintain.

Regarding supporting other platforms, Jonathan has been making major 
progress on making the new node-webkit gui version build on OSX as well 
as on Linux, so there may be more options soon.

All,

Please let me know what are your thoughts on the aforesaid proposed 
course of action.

Best,

Ico

On 12/5/2015 5:56 AM, Albert Graef wrote:
> Hi Ico,
>
> any thoughts on how to resolve this issue? Should I report it as a 
> bug? If you don't see the issue, then maybe my previous report didn't 
> sound urgent enough. ;-)
>
> I understand that compatibility with other Pd flavors is not a major 
> concern for you. But we're not talking about some incompatibilities in 
> the external library here. Rev. 57914b7 makes the Pd-L2Ork *patch file 
> format* incompatible with all other Pd versions. It completely kills 
> interoperability with both vanilla and extended Pd (and even older 
> Pd-L2Ork versions!).
>
> In fact, rev. 57914b7 affects pretty much *all* abstractions. If you 
> have a nontrivial patch, chances are that you'll get bitten by this 
> change ($0-id receivers are a very common idiom). The DISIS patches 
> included with pd-l2ork are affected as well (check 
> disis_wiimote-help.pd some time). Moreover, a quick search of 
> pd-l2ork/extra turns up some two dozen abstractions with #0- in them. 
> So even Pd-L2Ork's own abstraction library is pretty much broken right 
> now. I can't believe that I'm the only one running into this.
>
> I consider this a very serious bug. IMHO rev. 57914b7 needs to be 
> reverted quickly. For the time being, I have a new PKGBUILD for Arch 
> Linux systems ready to go which patches the current git sources 
> accordingly. This will eliminate the issue for Arch users, but this 
> really needs to be fixed upstream. ;-)
>
> Best,
> Albert
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Albert Graef <aggraef at gmail.com 
> <mailto:aggraef at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi Ico,
>
>     thanks, everything fine and dandy here again. :) Hope that you're
>     fine too!
>
>     On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 8:20 PM, Ivica Bukvic <ico at vt.edu
>     <mailto:ico at vt.edu>> wrote:
>
>         The reason for this change is because a label that is only the
>         pound sign by itself in the vanilla version it gets dubiously
>         converted into a dollar sign. This makes it impossible to use
>         that character in a label.
>
>
>     Ok, I understand. Yeah, I noticed that as well, it's annoying.
>
>     But as long as Pd-L2Ork only runs on Linux, being able to exchange
>     patches with other Pd flavors is important (also for my students
>     who usually run OSX or Windows at home).
>
>     The new format will also bite long-time Pd-L2Ork users since
>     (depending on their use of $i in abstractions) their patches will
>     suddenly stop working. In fact, I had this happen to me, that's
>     how I noticed.
>
>     Also, the use of control characters in patch files may throw off
>     mime type recognition and make it harder to exchange patches via
>     email.
>
>         In the fix that the new version has this is now possible
>         without affecting the use of dynamic variables like $0. If you
>         can think of a better way to do this while retaining the
>         backwards compatibility I am all for it.
>
>
>     Instead of a replacement for the # character, how about
>     introducing a Pd-L2Ork-specific way of escaping # in labels? I'm
>     not sure how hard it is to implement that, but then only users who
>     actually need that feature would be affected. All others wouldn't
>     even notice that there was a change in the patch format, and
>     everyone would be happy. ;-)
>
>     Albert
>
>     -- 
>     Dr. Albert Gr"af
>     Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
>     Email: aggraef at gmail.com <mailto:aggraef at gmail.com>
>     WWW: https://plus.google.com/+AlbertGraef
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Dr. Albert Gr"af
> Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
> Email: aggraef at gmail.com <mailto:aggraef at gmail.com>
> WWW: https://plus.google.com/+AlbertGraef
>
>
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