[L2Ork-dev] upcoming: 2.14.1

Jonathan Wilkes jon.w.wilkes at gmail.com
Fri Sep 18 13:29:33 EDT 2020


It doesn't matter to me what the shortcut is for the menu option to
turn this on/off, just that it's `<tab>` and `<shift-tab>` to cycle
through focusable objects.

-Jonathan

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 12:54 PM Ivica Ico Bukvic <ico at vt.edu> wrote:
>
> What about ctrl+alt+delete ;-)
>
> Kidding aside, I agree. Even alt+tab is problematic, and ctrl+tab may be, as well if OSX captures those OS-wide before they propagate into applications. That leaves us with exactly what you suggested.
>
> Best,
>
> Ico
>
> On 9/18/2020 12:46 PM, Albert Graef wrote:
>
> Whatever you use, *not* Alt as modifier please, as that's our new temporary runmode key. :) So no Ctrl+Alt+Tab, sorry Ico.
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 6:44 PM Albert Graef <aggraef at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ctrl+Shift+Tab sounds good, and looking at our menu shortcuts, Ctrl+T should still be available as well.
>>
>> In any case, switchable tab navigation of the canvas would be awesome to have, in both editmode and runmode.
>>
>> Which reminds me that tab navigation of the help browser is broken (old bug), I think I'll better look into that today and see whether I can still get it fixed in time for 2.14.1.
>>
>> Albert
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 6:22 PM Ivica Ico Bukvic <ico at vt.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/18/2020 12:05 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>>> > `<shift-tab>` navigates backwards.
>>>
>>> And pressing \ should create such a character and delete should delete
>>> things but in pd neither work as the standard suggests. Yes, there are
>>> standards, and then there are contextual needs. Sure shift-tab may not
>>> be the best example but we can come up with a different 2/3/4-finger
>>> salute to make this easier to access.
>>>
>>> ctrl+shift+tab?
>>> ctrl+alt+tab?
>>>
>>> Pick your poison...
>>>
>>> Creating a message just to toggle this behavior on and off puts us
>>> exactly in the same place where we are trying to get out of in respect
>>> to the keyboard focus...
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Also, regular old `<tab>` is key to discoverability. This is the way
>>> > tab focus works in all modern systems. We just need a shortcut for the
>>> > menu option to toggle it on/off.
>>> >
>>> > -Jonathan
>>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 11:06 AM Ivica Ico Bukvic <ico at vt.edu> wrote:
>>> >>>> On 9/18/2020 11:03 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
>>> >>>>> On 9/18/2020 10:49 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Tab could be also used in run mode for some activity (as it is in L2Ork
>>> >>>>>> Tweeter, for instance) and hijacking it would interrupt the interaction
>>> >>>>>> flow.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> There's a huge usability boon to allowing the user to change focus
>>> >>>>>> using tab in runmode, just as there is in a browser when filling out a
>>> >>>>>> form. We need a simple way to allow the user to do this so that, for
>>> >>>>>> example, they can traverse a column of gatoms to quickly update many
>>> >>>>>> different values. That's been a recurring feature request in Vanilla,
>>> >>>>>> and users go to a lot of trouble hacking the GUI->Pd system in order
>>> >>>>>> to simulate it.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> We could just add a "tabfocus" method to glists. When it's on tab can
>>> >>>>>> be used to traverse focus of gui elements with the keyboard. I'd argue
>>> >>>>>> to have it on by default.
>>> >>>>> I don't disagree that it would not be potentially useful. However, how
>>> >>>>> would you prevent it from adversely affecting the aforesaid scenario?
>>> >>>>> Perhaps press shift+tab to get started and then you get exclusive
>>> >>>>> focus in this mode and freely tab by pressing just tab until you Esc
>>> >>>>> out of it? I could see that being useful. Plain tab to enter it would
>>> >>>>> result in a lot of unwanted positives.
>>> >>>> That last sentence did not sound right. I meant "false positives" but
>>> >>>> you probably already got that :-)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> L2Ork-dev mailing list
>>> >>>> L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu
>>> >>>> https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> L2Ork-dev mailing list
>>> >>> L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu
>>> >>> https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
>>> >> --
>>> >> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
>>> >> Director, Creativity + Innovation
>>> >> Co-Director, Human Centered Design iPhD
>>> >> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology
>>> >>
>>> >> Virginia Tech
>>> >> Creative Technologies in Music
>>> >> School of Performing Arts – 0141
>>> >> Blacksburg, VA 24061
>>> >> (540) 231-6139
>>> >> ico at vt.edu
>>> >>
>>> >> www.icat.vt.edu
>>> >> www.performingarts.vt.edu
>>> >> l2ork.icat.vt.edu
>>> >> ico.bukvic.net
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> L2Ork-dev mailing list
>>> >> L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu
>>> >> https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > L2Ork-dev mailing list
>>> > L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu
>>> > https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
>>> Director, Creativity + Innovation
>>> Co-Director, Human Centered Design iPhD
>>> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology
>>>
>>> Virginia Tech
>>> Creative Technologies in Music
>>> School of Performing Arts – 0141
>>> Blacksburg, VA 24061
>>> (540) 231-6139
>>> ico at vt.edu
>>>
>>> www.icat.vt.edu
>>> www.performingarts.vt.edu
>>> l2ork.icat.vt.edu
>>> ico.bukvic.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> L2Ork-dev mailing list
>>> L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu
>>> https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Albert Gr"af
>> Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
>> Email: aggraef at gmail.com, web: https://agraef.github.io/
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Albert Gr"af
> Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
> Email: aggraef at gmail.com, web: https://agraef.github.io/
>
> _______________________________________________
> L2Ork-dev mailing list
> L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu
> https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
>
> --
> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
> Director, Creativity + Innovation
> Co-Director, Human Centered Design iPhD
> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology
>
> Virginia Tech
> Creative Technologies in Music
> School of Performing Arts – 0141
> Blacksburg, VA 24061
> (540) 231-6139
> ico at vt.edu
>
> www.icat.vt.edu
> www.performingarts.vt.edu
> l2ork.icat.vt.edu
> ico.bukvic.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> L2Ork-dev mailing list
> L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu
> https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev


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