<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Whew! I finally got [hidraw] working. At first, it was compiled as arm64 but my Pd install was x86_64 running in Rosetta 2 (apparently). Trying to compile Pd-L2Ork for arm64 threw up enough hurdles that I tried leaving Pd alone and bringing [hidraw] to align with it. I set it to x86_64 by using the line </div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>make PDDIR=../../pd/ PDBINDIR=../../pd/src/ CFLAGS="-I/usr/local/include/hidapi -arch x86_64" LDFLAGS="-arch x86_64"</div><div><br></div><div>and I also had to quit and restart Pd at the right time to keep it from relying on old cached things that were causing errors.</div><div><br></div><div>Anyhow, [hidraw] appears to be working properly now!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>By the way, regarding my original problem when I couldn't run Pd, it was odd that deleting a plist file seemed to be the fix when I definitely had done that previously while troubleshooting.</div><div><br></div><div>It turns out there were two plist files to watch for, one starting with org and one starting with net, so they weren't next to each other in Preferences:</div><div><br></div><div><div><span>net.pd-l2ork.nwjs.plist</span></div><div><span>org.puredata.pd-l2ork.plist</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>Hope that helps someone in the future.</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>Thanks for all your help,</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>𐌌 </span></div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Jeff Morris</div><div><a href="http://morrismusic.org" target="_blank">http://morrismusic.org</a></div><div><a href="http://weblogmusic.org" target="_blank">http://weblogmusic.org</a></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 9:27 PM Bukvic, Ivica <<a href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir="auto">You may have to adjust the PDBINDIR=../../pd/bin or just leave it out from that command.</div>
<div id="m_-7801397266189832623ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir="auto">
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Best, </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Ico</div>
<div>-- </div>
<div dir="auto">Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.</div>
<div dir="auto">Director, Creativity + Innovation</div>
<div dir="auto">Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD</div>
<div dir="auto">Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Virginia Tech</div>
<div dir="auto">Creative Technologies in Music</div>
<div dir="auto">School of Performing Arts – 0141</div>
<div dir="auto">Blacksburg, VA 24061</div>
<div dir="auto">(540) 231-6139</div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank">ico@vt.edu</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="http://ci.icat.vt.edu" target="_blank">ci.icat.vt.edu</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork.icat.vt.edu</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="http://ico.bukvic.net" target="_blank">ico.bukvic.net</a></div>
</div>
<div id="m_-7801397266189832623mail-editor-reference-message-container" dir="auto"><br>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-7801397266189832623divRplyFwdMsg" style="font-size:11pt"><strong>From:</strong> L2Ork-dev <<a href="mailto:l2ork-dev-bounces@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork-dev-bounces@disis.music.vt.edu</a>> on behalf of Bukvic, Ivica <<a href="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank">ico@vt.edu</a>><br>
<strong>Sent:</strong> Tuesday, October 22, 2024 9:40:11 PM<br>
<strong>To:</strong> <a href="mailto:l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a>><br>
<strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won’t finish starting up<br>
</div>
<br>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Great! Thanks for this info. I did some googling and was unable to find the source, so this is super helpful. I will include hidraw in the next pd-l2ork release (after I test it on all the platforms, we will probably skip the WebPdL2Ork build since it, by design,
would likely violate the browser sandbox).</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
In the meantime, the way you can build your own version is as follows (this may take a few steps):</div>
<ol start="1">
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;list-style-type:"1) ";color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>Download and install Xcode from the Apple Store</div>
</li><li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;list-style-type:"2) ";color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>go to <a href="https://github.com/pd-l2ork/pd-l2ork" id="m_-7801397266189832623OWA4251736b-04f1-5efc-ca2b-a37a609a33bb" target="_blank">
https://github.com/pd-l2ork/pd-l2ork</a> and follow instructions on how to set up your Mac to be able to compile Pd-L2Ork, but DO NOT compile it (just do steps 1-4, including 4).</div>
</li><li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;list-style-type:"3) ";color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>type following commands:<br>
<br>
cd externals</div>
<div>git clone <a href="https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-hidraw.git" id="m_-7801397266189832623LPlnk" target="_blank">
https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-hidraw.git</a><br>
cd pd-hidraw<br>
git submodule update --init --recursive<br>
make PDDIR=../../pd/ PDBINDIR=../../pd/src/</div>
</li></ol>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
That should build the external in that folder and have the help file in there, as well. Run pd-l2ork and click on open, and try opening the help file in that folder. Check the help file for permission adjustments on a Mac. If it all works, you should be able
to embed the external (hidraw.pd_darwin, or whatever it ends up being called) and copy the help file anywhere on your computer, including your projects. You may also need to copy the hidapi subfolder with them.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id="m_-7801397266189832623Signature">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Let me know if this works. This will speed up my efforts at integrating it into pd-l2ork.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<span style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Best,</span>
<div style="text-align:left;text-indent:0px;margin:0px;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="text-align:left;text-indent:0px;margin:0px;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Ico</div>
</div>
<div id="m_-7801397266189832623appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-7801397266189832623divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>From:</b> L2Ork-dev <<a href="mailto:l2ork-dev-bounces@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork-dev-bounces@disis.music.vt.edu</a>> on behalf of Jeff Morris <<a href="mailto:jeff@morrismusic.org" target="_blank">jeff@morrismusic.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 22, 2024 8:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won’t finish starting up</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Good to know.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As far as HID externals, IEM lists four at <a href="https://pd.iem.sh/interface-pd-with/" target="_blank">
https://pd.iem.sh/interface-pd-with/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And among them, only one is listed for Linux, macOS, and Windows, and it's been updated this year (thanks, Lucas Cordiviola): <a href="https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-hidraw" target="_blank">https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-hidraw</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>𐌌 <br>
<div><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Jeff Morris</div>
<div><a href="http://morrismusic.org/" target="_blank">http://morrismusic.org</a></div>
<div><a href="http://weblogmusic.org/" target="_blank">http://weblogmusic.org</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 7:47 PM Bukvic, Ivica <<a href="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank">ico@vt.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks, Jeff. I use those objects periodically and they have never failed me. This is just an old help patch and those comments should be ignored. I will look into adding HID object to the pd-l2ork build. Would you please send me a link to the
source? Also, does it work on all OSs?</div>
<div id="m_-7801397266189832623x_m_1272089337076231900ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir="auto">
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Best, </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Ico</div>
<div>-- </div>
<div dir="auto">Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.</div>
<div dir="auto">Director, Creativity + Innovation</div>
<div dir="auto">Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD</div>
<div dir="auto">Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Virginia Tech</div>
<div dir="auto">Creative Technologies in Music</div>
<div dir="auto">School of Performing Arts – 0141</div>
<div dir="auto">Blacksburg, VA 24061</div>
<div dir="auto">(540) 231-6139</div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank">ico@vt.edu</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="http://ci.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">ci.icat.vt.edu</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">l2ork.icat.vt.edu</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="http://ico.bukvic.net/" target="_blank">ico.bukvic.net</a></div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-7801397266189832623x_m_1272089337076231900divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>From:</b> L2Ork-dev <<a href="mailto:l2ork-dev-bounces@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork-dev-bounces@disis.music.vt.edu</a>>
on behalf of Jeff Morris <<a href="mailto:jeff@morrismusic.org" target="_blank">jeff@morrismusic.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 21, 2024 4:08:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won’t finish starting up</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Thanks. [legacy_mouseclick] and [legacy_mousemotion] work for me if I delete the full path from the name. However, I wonder how worried I should be about those messages in their help patchers saying things like "old legacy," "isn't stable," and
"Don't depend on it."
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If there's a more appropriate way to get the mouse data, I'd like to know it. And I am still curious about HID control, whenever someone gets a chance to pipe in.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>𐌌 <br>
<div><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Jeff Morris</div>
<div><a href="http://morrismusic.org/" target="_blank">http://morrismusic.org</a></div>
<div><a href="http://weblogmusic.org/" target="_blank">http://weblogmusic.org</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 12:51 PM Bukvic, Ivica <<a href="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank">ico@vt.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir="auto">For mouse you should use legacy_mouse or something like that. I will look it up once I am back at the computer.</div>
<div id="m_-7801397266189832623x_m_1272089337076231900x_m_7502394214278963988ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir="auto">
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Best, </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Ico</div>
<div>-- </div>
<div dir="auto">Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.</div>
<div dir="auto">Director, Creativity + Innovation</div>
<div dir="auto">Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD</div>
<div dir="auto">Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Virginia Tech</div>
<div dir="auto">Creative Technologies in Music</div>
<div dir="auto">School of Performing Arts – 0141</div>
<div dir="auto">Blacksburg, VA 24061</div>
<div dir="auto">(540) 231-6139</div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank">ico@vt.edu</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="http://ci.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">ci.icat.vt.edu</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">l2ork.icat.vt.edu</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="http://ico.bukvic.net/" target="_blank">ico.bukvic.net</a></div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-7801397266189832623x_m_1272089337076231900x_m_7502394214278963988divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>From:</b> L2Ork-dev <<a href="mailto:l2ork-dev-bounces@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork-dev-bounces@disis.music.vt.edu</a>>
on behalf of Jeff Morris <<a href="mailto:jeff@morrismusic.org" target="_blank">jeff@morrismusic.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 21, 2024 1:16:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won’t finish starting up</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Thank, Albert and Ico,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is enlightening information about the lower-level state of things.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So what do you guys use to get game controllers to work with your patches if not [hid]?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Any idea what's up with [cyclone/mousestate]? It loads without error but never produces any output, and I don't see anything in the DevTools console. Clicking [poll( sometimes produces these messages in the Pd console:<br>
<br>
legacy tcl command at 473 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: global hammergui_ispolling<br>
legacy tcl command at 474 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: set hammergui_ispolling 1<br>
legacy tcl command at 475 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: hammergui_poll<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And yes, for Purr-Data 2.20, I tried removing the quarantine attribute first and it wasn't until I used spctl that I got it to work.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
𐌌 </div>
<div><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Jeff Morris</div>
<div><a href="http://morrismusic.org/" target="_blank">http://morrismusic.org</a></div>
<div><a href="http://weblogmusic.org/" target="_blank">http://weblogmusic.org</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 2:57 AM Albert Graef <<a href="mailto:aggraef@gmail.com" target="_blank">aggraef@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Jeff,<br>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 7:15 PM Jeff Morris <<a href="mailto:jeff@morrismusic.org" target="_blank">jeff@morrismusic.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using <span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent">sudo spctl --master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon quitting.
The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Completely disabling Gatekeeper shouldn't be necessary. At least with the latest 2.20.0 version, just removing the com.apple.quarantine attribute after installation should be enough (cf.
<a href="https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation" target="_blank">
https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation</a>):<br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>sudo xattr -r -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/Purr-Data.app</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The nw.js crash-on-exit is a known bug: <a href="https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/issues/44" target="_blank">
https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/issues/44</a>. You can work around the annoying popup message from the OS as described in the ticket. Other than that, this bug is mostly harmless since the nw.js crash happens after purr-data already went through its entire
finalization sequence. And you can also avoid the bug by closing all patch windows before exiting the program. At least that works for me on Big Sur (old Intel MB) and Sonoma (MB M1), your mileage may vary.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As Ico already pointed out, there are various issues with the nw.js versions that we use. Probably the most serious regression is that NW2, the new browser window implementation being used as default in nw.js 0.42.4 and later, has some severe performance
problems with dynamic code execution in the JavaScript interpreter. This makes rendering dynamic svg graphics on the canvas (such as array displays and pd-lua graphics) horribly slow, which is why both pd-l2ork and purr-data switch nw.js to the old NW1 implementation.
(Ico first discovered this and reported it upstream some two years ago, but we still need to produce a minimal example for the issue before it will be considered.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This in turn limits the nw.js versions that we can use, because anything past nw.js 0.67.1 has broken window management in NW1 mode. The crash-on-exit bug on macOS is also related to the use of NW1 AFAICT. Moreover, on Linux, nw.js 0.56.0 and later have
another serious bug (nwworkingdir not working, which means that file dialogs will open in the wrong places) which AFAICT has never been fixed. Which is why I decided to go with nw.js 0.55.0 in purr-data 2.20.0, which is pretty much the last nw.js version that
works without any serious regressions on all major platforms.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But note that purr-data also includes a little shell script which lets you experiment with different nw.js versions and switch between NW1 and NW2, to find out what works best for you. See
<a href="https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation#patching-purr-datas-nwjs" target="_blank">
https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation#patching-purr-datas-nwjs</a>. (I doubt that the script will work with pd-l2ork as-is, but you can probably adjust it if needed, if you know a little shell programming.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>HTH,</div>
<div>Albert<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<span>-- </span><br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Dr. Albert Gr"af<br>
Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:aggraef@gmail.com" target="_blank">aggraef@gmail.com</a>, web:
<a href="https://agraef.github.io/" target="_blank">
https://agraef.github.io/</a></div>
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