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<p>What about ctrl+alt+delete ;-)</p>
<p>Kidding aside, I agree. Even alt+tab is problematic, and ctrl+tab
may be, as well if OSX captures those OS-wide before they
propagate into applications. That leaves us with exactly what you
suggested.<br>
</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Ico<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/18/2020 12:46 PM, Albert Graef
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+rUic0oNSHrROAMxZysVCkUZxLNrwqHdVMQNxS4Er4qRCx92g@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">Whatever you use, *not* Alt as modifier please, as
that's our new temporary runmode key. :) So no Ctrl+Alt+Tab,
sorry Ico.<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 6:44
PM Albert Graef <<a href="mailto:aggraef@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">aggraef@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Ctrl+Shift+Tab sounds good, and looking at our menu
shortcuts, Ctrl+T should still be available as well.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In any case, switchable tab navigation of the canvas
would be awesome to have, in both editmode and runmode.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Which reminds me that tab navigation of the help
browser is broken (old bug), I think I'll better look into
that today and see whether I can still get it fixed in
time for 2.14.1.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Albert</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at
6:22 PM Ivica Ico Bukvic <<a href="mailto:ico@vt.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ico@vt.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
On 9/18/2020 12:05 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:<br>
> `<shift-tab>` navigates backwards.<br>
<br>
And pressing \ should create such a character and delete
should delete <br>
things but in pd neither work as the standard suggests.
Yes, there are <br>
standards, and then there are contextual needs. Sure
shift-tab may not <br>
be the best example but we can come up with a different
2/3/4-finger <br>
salute to make this easier to access.<br>
<br>
ctrl+shift+tab?<br>
ctrl+alt+tab?<br>
<br>
Pick your poison...<br>
<br>
Creating a message just to toggle this behavior on and off
puts us <br>
exactly in the same place where we are trying to get out
of in respect <br>
to the keyboard focus...<br>
<br>
><br>
> Also, regular old `<tab>` is key to
discoverability. This is the way<br>
> tab focus works in all modern systems. We just need a
shortcut for the<br>
> menu option to toggle it on/off.<br>
><br>
> -Jonathan<br>
><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 11:06 AM Ivica Ico
Bukvic <<a href="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ico@vt.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> On 9/18/2020 11:03 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic
wrote:<br>
>>>>> On 9/18/2020 10:49 AM, Jonathan
Wilkes wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Tab could be also used in run
mode for some activity (as it is in L2Ork<br>
>>>>>> Tweeter, for instance) and
hijacking it would interrupt the interaction<br>
>>>>>> flow.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> There's a huge usability boon to
allowing the user to change focus<br>
>>>>>> using tab in runmode, just as
there is in a browser when filling out a<br>
>>>>>> form. We need a simple way to
allow the user to do this so that, for<br>
>>>>>> example, they can traverse a
column of gatoms to quickly update many<br>
>>>>>> different values. That's been a
recurring feature request in Vanilla,<br>
>>>>>> and users go to a lot of trouble
hacking the GUI->Pd system in order<br>
>>>>>> to simulate it.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> We could just add a "tabfocus"
method to glists. When it's on tab can<br>
>>>>>> be used to traverse focus of gui
elements with the keyboard. I'd argue<br>
>>>>>> to have it on by default.<br>
>>>>> I don't disagree that it would not be
potentially useful. However, how<br>
>>>>> would you prevent it from adversely
affecting the aforesaid scenario?<br>
>>>>> Perhaps press shift+tab to get
started and then you get exclusive<br>
>>>>> focus in this mode and freely tab by
pressing just tab until you Esc<br>
>>>>> out of it? I could see that being
useful. Plain tab to enter it would<br>
>>>>> result in a lot of unwanted
positives.<br>
>>>> That last sentence did not sound right. I
meant "false positives" but<br>
>>>> you probably already got that :-)<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>> L2Ork-dev mailing list<br>
>>>> <a
href="mailto:L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a><br>
>>>> <a
href="https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev</a><br>
>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>> L2Ork-dev mailing list<br>
>>> <a
href="mailto:L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a><br>
>>> <a
href="https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev</a><br>
>> --<br>
>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.<br>
>> Director, Creativity + Innovation<br>
>> Co-Director, Human Centered Design iPhD<br>
>> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology<br>
>><br>
>> Virginia Tech<br>
>> Creative Technologies in Music<br>
>> School of Performing Arts – 0141<br>
>> Blacksburg, VA 24061<br>
>> (540) 231-6139<br>
>> <a href="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ico@vt.edu</a><br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://www.icat.vt.edu"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.icat.vt.edu</a><br>
>> <a href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.performingarts.vt.edu</a><br>
>> <a href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">l2ork.icat.vt.edu</a><br>
>> <a href="http://ico.bukvic.net" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ico.bukvic.net</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> L2Ork-dev mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a><br>
>> <a
href="https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> L2Ork-dev mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a><br>
> <a
href="https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev</a><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.<br>
Director, Creativity + Innovation<br>
Co-Director, Human Centered Design iPhD<br>
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology<br>
<br>
Virginia Tech<br>
Creative Technologies in Music<br>
School of Performing Arts – 0141<br>
Blacksburg, VA 24061<br>
(540) 231-6139<br>
<a href="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ico@vt.edu</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.icat.vt.edu" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.icat.vt.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.performingarts.vt.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">l2ork.icat.vt.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://ico.bukvic.net" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ico.bukvic.net</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
L2Ork-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a><br>
<a href="https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev</a></blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Dr. Albert Gr"af<br>
Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:aggraef@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aggraef@gmail.com</a>,
web: <a href="https://agraef.github.io/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://agraef.github.io/</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Dr. Albert Gr"af<br>
Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:aggraef@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aggraef@gmail.com</a>,
web: <a href="https://agraef.github.io/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://agraef.github.io/</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
L2Ork-dev mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu">L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev">https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Co-Director, Human Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology
Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.icat.vt.edu">www.icat.vt.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu">www.performingarts.vt.edu</a>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net</pre>
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