<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Thank you very much then, Ivica; so I will keep reporting bugs and
ideas as I find them, I am happy to help with what I can do. I got
really excited about pd-l2Ork and I am spending a great deal of time
playing with it and testing it. You see, I recently switched from
Windows to Linux, and then from Max MSP 6 to Pure Data. This
transition from Max was not as easy as I expected, there were so
many little things were bothering me with pd. Now pd-l2Ork solved
the majority of my issues, and I am really happy about it.<br>
<br>
As for the arrays, I tested saving and opening a file in pd-extended
0.43.4 containing three arrays, one displayed as points, one as
polygon and one as Bezier curve. After saving and opening it again,
the display of the arrays remained the same, which means that the
odd behaviour you describe is only present in vanilla pd.<br>
<br>
As a final comment, if you want me to run any tests with pd-extended
just let me know.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Gilberto<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/09/14 19:30, Ivica Bukvic wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJrgGbZXY1T=JHuhC1k9LP7hU1_Nj9hOVyetf0SXPGAZdghc3w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">No worries, Gilberto. Thank you very much for your
bug reports, they are very much appreciated. Regarding graph
drawing I discovered that vanilla draws the graph one way and
once it is saved it is displayed another was (point vs curve).
So, in pd-l2ork we set out to explicitly create and save graphs
in a consistent fashion. I thought this also meant it would
maintain backwards compatibility but that apparently is not the
case. Regarding the Bezier curves, tkpath does not have that
feature for the time being it is disabled until we either
properly implement it in tkpath (which is less likely option) or
finish our migration to qt and implement it there (more likely
but may take a while). HTH</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sep 17, 2014 3:01 PM, "Gilberto
Agostinho" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gilbertohasnofb@googlemail.com">gilbertohasnofb@googlemail.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Hi Ivica, hi all,<br>
<br>
I found one more compatibility problem between pd-l2Ork and
pd-extended. This time it is related to displaying arrays.
In pd-extended, there are three ways of graphing arrays:
Points, Polygon, Beziercurve. Here is what is happening:<br>
<br>
- if an array is saved as "points" in pd-extended, it will
open as "polygon" in pd-l2Ork<br>
- if an array is saved as "polygon" in pd-extended, it will
open as "points" in pd-l2Ork<br>
- if an array is saved as "beziercurve" in pd-extended, it
will open as "polygon" in pd-l2Ork<br>
<br>
Here is an image of a same file opened in both programs at
the same time: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://s29.postimg.org/7cadlxxqf/Screenshot_from_2014_09_17_13_46_40.png"
target="_blank">http://s29.postimg.org/7cadlxxqf/Screenshot_from_2014_09_17_13_46_40.png</a><br>
<br>
This issue particularly influences the object [spectrogram~]
from the jmmmp library, since it is displayed as "points"
now in pd-l2Ork (which is arguably worse), and the user
cannot fix it by himself unless he launches pd-l2Ork as
root.<br>
<br>
And just one last comment: I do hope that these e-mails
about bugs and/or suggestions that I have been sending to
this list lately are not "flooding" you all with small
issues. If you feel that these issues are not relevant at
the present time or if there is a better way of reporting
bugs and small inconsistencies, please let me know. My main
intention when writing here is to collaborate in order to
improve pd-l2Ork.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Gilberto<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 15/09/14 22:34, Gilberto Agostinho wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Hi Ivica,<br>
<br>
As for the other e-mail, here are my comments:<br>
<br>
- I understand your approach of implementing things into
the core of the code, but I believe that allowing users to
write tcl plugins allow them to greatly customize their
installation, as well as share interesting solutions.
Nevertheless, here is a short demo of the
completion-plugin and category-menu-plugin I mentioned
before, which I believe could be very beneficial to
pd-l2ork (you probably have to watch it in HD in order to
be able to read, I recorded the whole desktop and not only
pd's window): <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO8Zi_Ae_-I"
target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO8Zi_Ae_-I</a><br>
<br>
- another interesting plugin is the full screen plugin,
which allows full screen use by hitting F11 on the
keyboard<br>
<br>
- If I manually change the file .pdl2ork, then I am able
to add folders to the path. I wonder why I can't do it via
pd-l2Ork.<br>
<br>
- Still about settings that are not saved: if I change the
colour scheme and then I restart pd-l2Ork, it reverts back
to the default colours. It also would be nice to allow
users to save their presets, since you let them change the
colours themselves and it would be frustrating to spend
time preparing your own palette only to lose it next time.<br>
<br>
- pity about initialization of JACK, but that's totally
understandable. In the end, one needs only two extra
clicks to start it manually.<br>
<br>
- I already wrote about [gcanvas] on my previous e-mail,
but just restating: part of ggee, default with
pd-extended.<br>
<br>
- As for [prepend] vs [list prepend], I think it could be
nice to leave obsolete objects in order to maximize
compatibility (I have seen many patches using [prepend]).
On top of that, I believe that [prepend] works not only
with lists, but also with any strings, and it is very
useful to set a value to a message box (I requires one
less object to do this job). Have a look: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://s12.postimg.org/f45zkztx9/foobar.png"
target="_blank">http://s12.postimg.org/f45zkztx9/foobar.png</a>
- or am I missing something here?<br>
<br>
Thanks a lot for all the commenting of my questions, I
really appreciate your time and the effort put on
Pd-l2Ork. If there is anything I can do to help out,
please let me know.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Gilberto<br>
<br>
<div>On 15/09/14 18:54, Ivica Bukvic wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Again, thank you for the update as well as
for kind words re: pd-l2ork, Gilberto. Please see my
comments below.</p>
<p dir="ltr">On Sep 15, 2014 10:54 AM, "Gilberto
Agostinho" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gilbertohasnofb@googlemail.com"
target="_blank">gilbertohasnofb@googlemail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hello list,<br>
><br>
> So after successfully installing pd-2lok
side-by-side with pd-extended, I am finally playing
around with it. I am extremely impressed by it, the
new features are absolutely stunning! That said, I do
have a couple of questions/comments about it, and I
hope this is the right place to ask them (I tried the
main Pure Data forum, but I think not many users there
are working with pd-l2Ork).</p>
<p dir="ltr">Either place is fine, although perhaps this
one is a bit more appropriate.</p>
<p dir="ltr">><br>
> - Pd-l2Ork does not seem to recognize nor execute
any of my *-plugin.tcl files (pd-extended
automatically does it for any file ending with
-plugin.tcl). Is this feature not yet supported? If
so, is there any plan to implement it? It would be a
huge pity to live without it, since there are great
tcl plugins available for pure data, such as
auto-completition, full screen by pressing F11 and one
called category_menu-plugin.tcl (this last one is my
absolutely favourite).</p>
<p dir="ltr">We haven't implemented plugins as we prefer
to implement things into the core of pd-l2ork and also
because we are looking to migrate gui to qt soon which
will obsolete a large number of tk-specific
workarounds. Pd-l2ork already supports more flexible
implementations of some of the plugins, like hide menu
which in pd-l2ork can be done per canvas rather than
only globally for the entire pd instance. I am not
familiar what plugins you listed do beyond what you
mentioned above, so if you think these should be a
part of pd-l2ork, we can certainly look into it.</p>
<p dir="ltr">><br>
> - I am not able to add a new folder to pd-l2Ork's
path. To be more exact: I do manage to add it, but
then when I restart Pd-l2Ork (so all externals would
be reloaded) the folder is not on its path and the
abstractions there contained cannot be loaded. How can
one edit the path?</p>
<p dir="ltr">Did you try changing .pdl2ork file in your
home folder? That is what it uses for its
user-specific settings file.</p>
<p dir="ltr">><br>
> - Is it possible for pd-l2Ork to automatically
start JACK by itself as pd-extended does? Now I have
to manually open QjackCtrl, start JACK and then start
pd-l2Ork</p>
<p dir="ltr">As of right now, unfortunately no, mainly
because so far it seemed better to have full control
over how many channels jack should start and how they
should connect to pd-l2ork, than deal with default
connections that only work in limited situations. As
always, we are open to alternative implementations,
but as it seems right now it is a choice of either
using the incomplete implementation or reimplementing
everything tools like qjackctl does which seems
awfully redundant.</p>
<p dir="ltr">><br>
> - [gcanvas] : this very nice pd-extended GUI
object is missing, and I believe quite a lot of
abstractions use it (I found that even some of GEM
tutorials included in pd-l2ork have it)</p>
<p dir="ltr">We build Gem from the latest git. I
unfortunately have not tested all its patches so if
this is something we should have (and it certainly
seems so), we will gladly add it to the next release.
I could use more info about that object as I do not
use extended or vanilla. Namely, is it a core object
or a third-party external and if so to which lib does
it belong to?</p>
<p dir="ltr">><br>
> - [prepend] : very useful pd-extended object
(part of cyclone) is also missing. Why wasn't this
library included in this release? I copied it from the
pd-extended folder and it worked perfectly well.</p>
<p dir="ltr">This is a part of continual work to prune
redundant objects from pd-l2ork. [list prepend] is a
perfect alternative and I have built an abstraction
using it to replace prepend (unfortunately I have not
included it with the release, which I probably
should--perhaps we could have a legacy folder with
externals considers obsolete?). This may prove a
slight frustration in the interim until we provide an
online resource for legacy externals, but in the long
run I hope you will agree it will result in a
healthier ecosystem with no redundant objects and
therefore less confusion.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Hope this helps!</p>
<p dir="ltr">><br>
> Thanks a lot in advance.<br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
> Gilberto<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> L2Ork-dev mailing list<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu"
target="_blank">L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev"
target="_blank">http://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev</a></p>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
L2Ork-dev mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev" target="_blank">http://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div> </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
L2Ork-dev mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu">L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev"
target="_blank">http://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
L2Ork-dev mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu">L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev">http://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>