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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Andras,<br>
      <br>
      This is very helpful. I tried to track down the problem and when I
      open your alpi_env patch with -d 3 debug option, I found out that
      you keep refreshing that array literally dozens of times per
      second. This tends to clog down the GUI that is trying to keep up
      with you redraws while trying to also keep it on the same layers
      as it used to be (in terms of drawing order), which is something
      regular pd ignores and therefore draws on top with no regard to
      where the array used to be drawn (so tofront/back completely lose
      meaning/purpose--as is the case in your abstraction where
      mycanvas  is in front of the array because you got used to the
      idea that array will draw on top of it, resulting in a array
      frame, then canvas, and then array contents, effectively
      sandwich-ing the mycanvas as if it exists between the two). While
      this in theory should not bog down the GUI in this case it does
      because the rate is apparently high enough to cause trouble. Now
      the easy solution is to remove processpoints subpatch that appears
      responsible for the bogging down part, because in pd-l2ork you are
      in theory not allowed to drag arrays outside the preset range, so
      instead of using fancy scalars, just use a 2-point array with a
      curve and you'll be done :-)<br>
      <br>
      For me BTW the problem is apparent even if I open the abstraction
      by itself, likely either because my laptop is weaker or because I
      was running it with debug option which resulted in a lot of
      console output, so the problem is more pronounced.<br>
      <br>
      Tkpath is apparently a bit less efficient in certain aspects but
      as long as you don't use as you put it kludge workarounds you
      should be ok :-)<br>
      <br>
      Regarding your other abstractions, I haven't looked at them but
      judging from what you're trying to accomplish, chances are you are
      redrawing another GOP/array which is resulting in a similar
      problem.<br>
      <br>
      Finally, regarding points and lines in an array, I discovered that
      in regular pd (or at least the one I forked from many years ago),
      I inherited inconsistency where if you created a new array as
      point array it would still draw you as a line array (or it was the
      other way around, can't remember), and where bezier array had no
      impact. I chose to simplify this and get rid of bezier array and
      made sure that when you select points at creation time you indeed
      get points, and when you select lines, you get lines.<br>
      <br>
      I may want to add range limiting feature in the future which will
      also solve your problem of dragging the existing points outside
      the array range and then you could keep your fancy scalars.<br>
      <br>
      Hope this helps!<br>
      <br>
      On 12/06/2013 03:35 PM, András Murányi wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAJtGUK7ydKyVVt6-bfswOm73sARM++mA3QqRuP3ceAGEMEYwcA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_extra">Hi there,<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">lately I've been in a kind of parking
          position with Pd but today I made some experiments and it
          seems I got something. I tried to remake my "big patch" from
          scratch, adding abstractions one by one, and the feeling I got
          is that it's getting sluggish gradually. However, when I add
          [alpi_env] that's the moment when CPU goes 100% and the whole
          thing gets stuck there. alpi_env.pd is a slight modification
          of s-env.pd from an old version of s-abstractions. Note that
          opening alpi_env.pd directly doesn't trigger the problem, only
          embedding it in a parent patch. It used to work well until the
          time tkpath was introduced, but of course I don't know if the
          problem is related to tkpath or not.<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">Some other minor observations:<br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">- when opening m32_mu100.pd, the
          vsliders update very slow when moved. This is only with
          sliders that are routed to tabwrite (thru some other objects),
          while an unconnected vslider updates lightning fast. And the
          symptom only occurs when the m32_mu100.pd is opened, not when
          operated as GOP in the parent patch.<br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">- still in m32_mu100.pd, arrays are
          displayed as curves while they were saved as "display as
          points" (and are displayed as points in pd-extended).<br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">
          <br>
          All the mentioned patches are still in the zip at <a
            moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://ubuntuone.com/0RrKroD4ucd2iBVJaxnL78"
            target="_blank">http://ubuntuone.com/0RrKroD4ucd2iBVJaxnL78</a><br>
          <br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">Thanks,<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">
          András<br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 11:46 PM,
            Ivica Ico Bukvic <span dir="ltr"><<a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu"
                target="_blank">ico@vt.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                <div>Hi Andras,<br>
                  <br>
                  Just wanted to check if you made any progress on the
                  ideas I suggested in my last email (namely cutting a
                  cluster of objects at a time and seeing at what point
                  the whole thing starts working again and then tracing
                  back at what point does the breakage occur).
                  <div>
                    <div><br>
                      <br>
                      On 10/21/2013 02:51 PM, András Murányi wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                          <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 18, 2013
                            at 10:45 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic <span
                              dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank">ico@vt.edu</a>></span>
                            wrote:<br>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div link="blue" vlink="purple"
                                lang="EN-US">
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Andras,</span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
                                      haven’t forgotten about your
                                      request—it is still on my TODO
                                      list. It is just that here at
                                      Virginia Tech we’re less than 2
                                      weeks away from a grand opening of
                                      a new $100M building that will
                                      house (among other things)
                                      Institute I am heavily involved
                                      in.</span></p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Congrats!<br>
                            </div>
                            <div> </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div link="blue" vlink="purple"
                                lang="EN-US">
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">
                                      As a result, I’ve been rather busy
                                      with other things. Rest assured, I
                                      will try to look into this asap.
                                      In the meantime, what would be
                                      very helpful is if you would
                                      please generate a list of all
                                      objects in the patch so that we
                                      can possibly narrow down where the
                                      problem stems from. What you’ve
                                      started doing (removing tof and
                                      mixed objects) is a great start. I
                                      have a nagging suspicion something
                                      in that patch trips up the GUI and
                                      sends an illegal command that
                                      makes GUI unresponsive. Finding
                                      out what that is will greatly help
                                      in identifying the solution. I
                                      would go as far as renaming the
                                      extra/ folder and seeing if that
                                      fixes things. If it does, then it
                                      is definitely one of the 3<sup>rd</sup>
                                      party externals.</span></p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>I guess I could generate a list of
                              objects from the source files using some
                              sed/awk wizardry, but unfortunately I'm
                              not that good at it so I'll postpone this
                              until it eventually seems unavoidable.<br>
                            </div>
                            <div>I have, though, renamed the whole
                              extra/ folder and tried to open the patch
                              once again. Minutes and minutes of 100%
                              CPU (alternating between cores) without an
                              ending, that is the result. It seems to me
                              I just have too many objects for the
                              current SVG implementation.<br>
                               </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div link="blue" vlink="purple"
                                lang="EN-US">
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"></span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Once

                                      latter part of November rolls
                                      around, I should have a bit more
                                      time to look into this. Hope this
                                      helps!</span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>
                                    </span></p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Thanks,<br>
                              <br>
                              András<br>
                              <br>
                            </div>
                            <div>  </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div link="blue" vlink="purple"
                                lang="EN-US">
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"></span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best

                                      wishes,</span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Ico</span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                  <div style="border-width:medium medium
                                    medium 1.5pt;border-style:none none
                                    none
                                    solid;border-color:-moz-use-text-color
                                    -moz-use-text-color
                                    -moz-use-text-color blue;padding:0in
                                    0in 0in 4pt">
                                    <div>
                                      <div style="border-width:1pt
                                        medium medium;border-style:solid
                                        none
                                        none;border-color:rgb(181,196,223)
                                        -moz-use-text-color
                                        -moz-use-text-color;padding:3pt
                                        0in 0in">
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
                                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              href="mailto:l2ork-dev-bounces@disis.music.vt.edu"
                                              target="_blank">l2ork-dev-bounces@disis.music.vt.edu</a>
                                            [mailto:<a
                                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              href="mailto:l2ork-dev-bounces@disis.music.vt.edu"
                                              target="_blank">l2ork-dev-bounces@disis.music.vt.edu</a>]
                                            <b>On Behalf Of </b>András
                                            Murányi<br>
                                            <b>Sent:</b> Friday, October
                                            18, 2013 9:38 AM<br>
                                            <b>To:</b> L2Ork developers<br>
                                            <b>Subject:</b> [L2Ork-dev]
                                            Big patch takes forever to
                                            load</span></p>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt">Hi Ivica,</p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal">I'm
                                                    very interested in
                                                    the recent
                                                    developments
                                                    involving tkzync and
                                                    I can't wait to see
                                                    pd-l2ork in its full
                                                    zoomable, opengl
                                                    glory!</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal">The
                                                  recent introduction of
                                                  SVG drawing of object,
                                                  however, posed a huge
                                                  problem for me: my big
                                                  patch (already posted
                                                  here, <a
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ubuntuone.com/0RrKroD4ucd2iBVJaxnL78" target="_blank">http://ubuntuone.com/0RrKroD4ucd2iBVJaxnL78</a>)
                                                  just never finishes to
                                                  load. This means I
                                                  cannot play music
                                                  unless I revert to an
                                                  older version of
                                                  pd-l2ork.</p>
                                              </div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal">While
                                                originally I thought
                                                that the problem was
                                                caused by unaccelerated
                                                objects, removing them
                                                (by renaming the
                                                extra/tof and
                                                extra/miXed folders)
                                                doesn't seem to solve
                                                anything.</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                                              style="margin-bottom:12pt">So
                                              at this point I'm asking
                                              for your kind advice. I
                                              would like to make use of
                                              recent pd-l2ork
                                              developments but I'm
                                              blocked by the speed drop
                                              that came with SVG
                                              rendering (I guess).</p>
                                          </div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<br
                                              clear="all">
                                          </p>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal">András
                                                      </p>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                              L2Ork-dev mailing list<br>
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu"
                                target="_blank">L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a><br>
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="http://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev"
                                target="_blank">http://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev</a><br>
                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                          <br clear="all">
                          <br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <fieldset></fieldset>
                      <br>
                      <pre>_______________________________________________
L2Ork-dev mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">L2Ork-dev@disis.music.vt.edu</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev" target="_blank">http://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev</a></pre>
                    </blockquote>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <pre cols="72">-- 
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A
Composition, Music Technology
Director, DISIS Interactive Sound & Intermedia Studio
Director, L2Ork Linux Laptop Orchestra
Head, ICAT IMPACT Studio
Virginia Tech
Department of Music
Blacksburg, VA 24061-0240
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28540%29%20231-6139" value="+15402316139" target="_blank">(540) 231-6139</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28540%29%20231-5034" value="+15402315034" target="_blank">(540) 231-5034</a> (fax)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://disis.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">disis.music.vt.edu</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://l2ork.music.vt.edu" target="_blank">l2ork.music.vt.edu</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://ico.bukvic.net" target="_blank">ico.bukvic.net</a></pre>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <br>
          <br clear="all">
          <br>
          -- <br>
          Murányi András
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A
Composition, Music Technology
Director, DISIS Interactive Sound & Intermedia Studio
Director, L2Ork Linux Laptop Orchestra
Head, ICAT IMPACT Studio
Virginia Tech
Department of Music
Blacksburg, VA 24061-0240
(540) 231-6139
(540) 231-5034 (fax)
disis.music.vt.edu
l2ork.music.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net</pre>
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