[L2Ork-dev] Won’t finish starting up

Tue Oct 22 21:39:55 EDT 2024

Great! Thanks for this info. I did some googling and was unable to find the source, so this is super helpful. I will include hidraw in the next pd-l2ork release (after I test it on all the platforms, we will probably skip the WebPdL2Ork build since it, by design, would likely violate the browser sandbox).

In the meantime, the way you can build your own version is as follows (this may take a few steps):

  1.
Download and install Xcode from the Apple Store
  2.
go to https://github.com/pd-l2ork/pd-l2ork and follow instructions on how to set up your Mac to be able to compile Pd-L2Ork, but DO NOT compile it (just do steps 1-4, including 4).
  3.
type following commands:

cd externals
git clone https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-hidraw.git
cd pd-hidraw
git submodule update --init --recursive
make PDDIR=../../pd/ PDBINDIR=../../pd/src/

That should build the external in that folder and have the help file in there, as well. Run pd-l2ork and click on open, and try opening the help file in that folder. Check the help file for permission adjustments on a Mac. If it all works, you should be able to embed the external (hidraw.pd_darwin, or whatever it ends up being called) and copy the help file anywhere on your computer, including your projects. You may also need to copy the hidapi subfolder with them.

Let me know if this works. This will speed up my efforts at integrating it into pd-l2ork.

Thanks.

Best,

Ico
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2024 8:02 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won’t finish starting up

Good to know.

As far as HID externals, IEM lists four at https://pd.iem.sh/interface-pd-with/

And among them, only one is listed for Linux, macOS, and Windows, and it's been updated this year (thanks, Lucas Cordiviola): https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-hidraw

𐌌

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>

On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 7:47 PM Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>> wrote:
Thanks, Jeff. I use those objects periodically and they have never failed me. This is just an old help patch and those comments should be ignored. I will look into adding HID object to the pd-l2ork build. Would you please send me a link to the source? Also, does it work on all OSs?

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>

ci.icat.vt.edu<http://ci.icat.vt.edu/>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu<http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/>
ico.bukvic.net<http://ico.bukvic.net/>
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu>> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org<mailto:jeff at morrismusic.org>>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2024 4:08:07 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu> <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won’t finish starting up

Thanks. [legacy_mouseclick] and [legacy_mousemotion] work for me if I delete the full path from the name. However, I wonder how worried I should be about those messages in their help patchers saying things like "old legacy," "isn't stable," and "Don't depend on it."

If there's a more appropriate way to get the mouse data, I'd like to know it. And I am still curious about HID control, whenever someone gets a chance to pipe in.

Thanks,

𐌌

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>

On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 12:51 PM Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>> wrote:
For mouse you should use legacy_mouse or something like that. I will look it up once I am back at the computer.

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>

ci.icat.vt.edu<http://ci.icat.vt.edu/>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu<http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/>
ico.bukvic.net<http://ico.bukvic.net/>
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu>> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org<mailto:jeff at morrismusic.org>>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2024 1:16:51 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu> <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won’t finish starting up

Thank, Albert and Ico,

This is enlightening information about the lower-level state of things.

So what do you guys use to get game controllers to work with your patches if not [hid]?

Any idea what's up with [cyclone/mousestate]? It loads without error but never produces any output, and I don't see anything in the DevTools console. Clicking [poll( sometimes produces these messages in the Pd console:

legacy tcl command at 473 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: global hammergui_ispolling
legacy tcl command at 474 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: set hammergui_ispolling 1
legacy tcl command at 475 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: hammergui_poll

And yes, for Purr-Data 2.20, I tried removing the quarantine attribute first and it wasn't until I used spctl that I got it to work.

Thanks,

𐌌

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>

On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 2:57 AM Albert Graef <aggraef at gmail.com<mailto:aggraef at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Jeff,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 7:15 PM Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org<mailto:jeff at morrismusic.org>> wrote:
I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using sudo spctl --master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon quitting. The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.

Completely disabling Gatekeeper shouldn't be necessary. At least with the latest 2.20.0 version, just removing the com.apple.quarantine attribute after installation should be enough (cf. https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation):
sudo xattr -r -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/Purr-Data.app

The nw.js crash-on-exit is a known bug: https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/issues/44. You can work around the annoying popup message from the OS as described in the ticket. Other than that, this bug is mostly harmless since the nw.js crash happens after purr-data already went through its entire finalization sequence. And you can also avoid the bug by closing all patch windows before exiting the program. At least that works for me on Big Sur (old Intel MB) and Sonoma (MB M1), your mileage may vary.

As Ico already pointed out, there are various issues with the nw.js versions that we use. Probably the most serious regression is that NW2, the new browser window implementation being used as default in nw.js 0.42.4 and later, has some severe performance problems with dynamic code execution in the JavaScript interpreter. This makes rendering dynamic svg graphics on the canvas (such as array displays and pd-lua graphics) horribly slow, which is why both pd-l2ork and purr-data switch nw.js to the old NW1 implementation. (Ico first discovered this and reported it upstream some two years ago, but we still need to produce a minimal example for the issue before it will be considered.)

This in turn limits the nw.js versions that we can use, because anything past nw.js 0.67.1 has broken window management in NW1 mode. The crash-on-exit bug on macOS is also related to the use of NW1 AFAICT. Moreover, on Linux, nw.js 0.56.0 and later have another serious bug (nwworkingdir not working, which means that file dialogs will open in the wrong places) which AFAICT has never been fixed. Which is why I decided to go with nw.js 0.55.0 in purr-data 2.20.0, which is pretty much the last nw.js version that works without any serious regressions on all major platforms.

But note that purr-data also includes a little shell script which lets you experiment with different nw.js versions and switch between NW1 and NW2, to find out what works best for you. See https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation#patching-purr-datas-nwjs. (I doubt that the script will work with pd-l2ork as-is, but you can probably adjust it if needed, if you know a little shell programming.)

HTH,
Albert

--
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
Email: aggraef at gmail.com<mailto:aggraef at gmail.com>, web: https://agraef.github.io/
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