From ico at vt.edu  Tue Oct  1 13:59:33 2024
From: ico at vt.edu (Bukvic, Ivica)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2024 17:59:33 +0000
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] New stable release of pd-l2ork
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB6895F3B8CF521E8AE171068CC7772@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Dear all,

I am pleased to announce a new stable release of pd-l2ork, with an updated version of WebPdL2Ork to be launched later this week. The new version has tons of improvements, including porting of all objects (except list menu that should be ported in the next couple of weeks) introduced between 0.48 and 0.54 from vanilla and other optimizations.

To download the latest version, visit: https://bit.ly/pd-l2ork


Best,


Ico

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>

ci.icat.vt.edu<http://ci.icat.vt.edu>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu<http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu>
ico.bukvic.net<http://ico.bukvic.net>

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From ico at vt.edu  Tue Oct  1 17:02:54 2024
From: ico at vt.edu (Bukvic, Ivica)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2024 21:02:54 +0000
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] New stable release of pd-l2ork
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB6895F3B8CF521E8AE171068CC7772@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR05MB6895F3B8CF521E8AE171068CC7772@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB6895A8C5FB78F7B471481D2EC7772@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

New version of WebPdL2Ork is now also up and running and is significantly faster than the previous version. To test it under heavy load, try loading Tweeter inside the browser by going to:

https://l2ork.music.vt.edu:3000/?url=L2Ork-Tweeter/L2Ork-Tweeter.pd

Best,

Ico
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 1:59 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] New stable release of pd-l2ork

Dear all,

I am pleased to announce a new stable release of pd-l2ork, with an updated version of WebPdL2Ork to be launched later this week. The new version has tons of improvements, including porting of all objects (except list menu that should be ported in the next couple of weeks) introduced between 0.48 and 0.54 from vanilla and other optimizations.

To download the latest version, visit: https://bit.ly/pd-l2ork


Best,


Ico

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>

ci.icat.vt.edu<http://ci.icat.vt.edu/>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu<http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/>
ico.bukvic.net<http://ico.bukvic.net/>

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From ico at vt.edu  Tue Oct  1 17:03:36 2024
From: ico at vt.edu (Bukvic, Ivica)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2024 21:03:36 +0000
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] New stable release of pd-l2ork
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB6895A8C5FB78F7B471481D2EC7772@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR05MB6895F3B8CF521E8AE171068CC7772@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <MN2PR05MB6895A8C5FB78F7B471481D2EC7772@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB68954A36E3E9AB0AC6624B98C7772@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Forgot to add, once loaded, type grapevine-end into the session text box in the top-right corner, press enter, and then click on the green load button next to it.

Best,

Ico
________________________________
From: Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 5:02 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: New stable release of pd-l2ork

New version of WebPdL2Ork is now also up and running and is significantly faster than the previous version. To test it under heavy load, try loading Tweeter inside the browser by going to:

https://l2ork.music.vt.edu:3000/?url=L2Ork-Tweeter/L2Ork-Tweeter.pd

Best,

Ico
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 1:59 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] New stable release of pd-l2ork

Dear all,

I am pleased to announce a new stable release of pd-l2ork, with an updated version of WebPdL2Ork to be launched later this week. The new version has tons of improvements, including porting of all objects (except list menu that should be ported in the next couple of weeks) introduced between 0.48 and 0.54 from vanilla and other optimizations.

To download the latest version, visit: https://bit.ly/pd-l2ork


Best,


Ico

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>

ci.icat.vt.edu<http://ci.icat.vt.edu/>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu<http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/>
ico.bukvic.net<http://ico.bukvic.net/>

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From aggraef at gmail.com  Sun Oct 13 15:14:16 2024
From: aggraef at gmail.com (Albert Graef)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2024 21:14:16 +0200
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] Purr Data 12.20.0 released
Message-ID: <CA+rUic01yE8OdMtrGXZwBaZPs5WDE4Zer_tS8Ts=Q=nm5-XcUA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

Hard on the heels of Ico's new pd-l2ork release, there's also a new
purr-data version available. At almost 280 commits since last year's
2.19.3, this is a big update including many bug fixes and improvements.
Some highlights are:

- Pd 0.54 compatibility -- this includes MovementGH's backport of various
objects and multi-channel support for pd-l2ork (thanks MovementGH, this
made my job much easier!) and many of my own fixes, like vanilla-compatible
message forwarding for inlet~, a new vanilla-compatible listbox gatom, and
vanilla-compatible backslash quoting.

- pd-lua was updated to 0.12.21, including support for Tim Schoen's new
graphics and signal APIs and Ben Wesch's multi-channel support in pd-lua.
These are fully supported in purr-data now.

- moocow/flite was replaced with Lucarda's pd-flite 0.3.2 which provides
better cross-platform compatibility and some interesting new features.

- Fixed explicit line breaks and added some rich-text formatting tags to
comments.

- Improved intelligent patching mode 4, which implements a new heuristic
for determining object pairs in row- or column-based layouts, and a new
parallel connections mode.

- Improved help browser, with subdirectory links in the directory view,
also added the "Meet the Cat" tutorial in pdf format to the Help menu so
that it can be read off-line.

- Device Refresh buttons in the Audio and MIDI preferences.

- Contributions by our GSoC 2025 students, including some games and
improvements of the auto-completion dropdown.

More details and two little screencasts demonstrating some of the new
features can be found in the release notes on GitHub:
https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/releases/tag/2.20.0

Best,
Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
Email: aggraef at gmail.com, web: https://agraef.github.io/
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From aggraef at gmail.com  Sun Oct 13 15:17:08 2024
From: aggraef at gmail.com (Albert Graef)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2024 21:17:08 +0200
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] Purr Data 12.20.0 released
In-Reply-To: <CA+rUic01yE8OdMtrGXZwBaZPs5WDE4Zer_tS8Ts=Q=nm5-XcUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+rUic01yE8OdMtrGXZwBaZPs5WDE4Zer_tS8Ts=Q=nm5-XcUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+rUic28_PQq3zTz-TQrmv8UrGM9eN2XFRSrqNpnwuxpCUbRGQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for messing up the subject line. It's purr-data *2*.20.0, of course.
;-)

On Sun, Oct 13, 2024 at 9:14?PM Albert Graef <aggraef at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Hard on the heels of Ico's new pd-l2ork release, there's also a new
> purr-data version available. At almost 280 commits since last year's
> 2.19.3, this is a big update including many bug fixes and improvements.
> Some highlights are:
>
> - Pd 0.54 compatibility -- this includes MovementGH's backport of various
> objects and multi-channel support for pd-l2ork (thanks MovementGH, this
> made my job much easier!) and many of my own fixes, like vanilla-compatible
> message forwarding for inlet~, a new vanilla-compatible listbox gatom, and
> vanilla-compatible backslash quoting.
>
> - pd-lua was updated to 0.12.21, including support for Tim Schoen's new
> graphics and signal APIs and Ben Wesch's multi-channel support in pd-lua.
> These are fully supported in purr-data now.
>
> - moocow/flite was replaced with Lucarda's pd-flite 0.3.2 which provides
> better cross-platform compatibility and some interesting new features.
>
> - Fixed explicit line breaks and added some rich-text formatting tags to
> comments.
>
> - Improved intelligent patching mode 4, which implements a new heuristic
> for determining object pairs in row- or column-based layouts, and a new
> parallel connections mode.
>
> - Improved help browser, with subdirectory links in the directory view,
> also added the "Meet the Cat" tutorial in pdf format to the Help menu so
> that it can be read off-line.
>
> - Device Refresh buttons in the Audio and MIDI preferences.
>
> - Contributions by our GSoC 2025 students, including some games and
> improvements of the auto-completion dropdown.
>
> More details and two little screencasts demonstrating some of the new
> features can be found in the release notes on GitHub:
> https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/releases/tag/2.20.0
>
> Best,
> Albert
>
> --
> Dr. Albert Gr"af
> Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
> Email: aggraef at gmail.com, web: https://agraef.github.io/
>


-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
Email: aggraef at gmail.com, web: https://agraef.github.io/
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From ico at vt.edu  Tue Oct 15 10:17:09 2024
From: ico at vt.edu (Bukvic, Ivica)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2024 14:17:09 +0000
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] New release of Pd-L2Ork, L2Ork Tweeter, and WebPdL2Ork
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB6895D9044EE555935E9A903AC7452@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Dear all,

Another release of pd-l2ork version 20241014 is now available. It fixes one potential crash and completes the integration of pure-data 0.54 objects. listbox and dropdown now have the same benefits like all pd-l2ork gui objects, allowing them to toggle their interactivity (mouse/keyboard input) and/or make their keyboard input exclusive (toggle the ability of the rest of the pd-l2ork to receive keyboard events while they are focused). This is particularly useful if you wish to disable a part of the GUI under certain circumstances, something that is also used extensively inside L2Ork Tweeter. Speaking of which, the new version also has the L2Ork Tweeter version 0.84. The newly added and updated GUI objects also enjoy other pd-l2ork benefits, like the ability to cut/copy/paste and append (shift+click) contents. The flatpak release now also includes aarch64 platform and supports Raspberry Pis 5 and other hardware that has dropped arm6 support. Lastly, WebPdL2Ork has also seen its version bumped with a few small usability fixes.

Download pd-l2ork (includes Tweeter): https://bit.ly/pd-l2ork
Download L2Ork Tweeter (works only with pd-l2ork 20241014 or newer): https://bit.ly/L2Ork-Tweeter
Pd-L2Ork flatpak: https://flathub.org/apps/io.github.pd_l2ork.Pd_L2Ork
Info on how to access and use WebPdL2Ork: https://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/pd-l2ork-invades-the-web/


Best,


Ico

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>

ci.icat.vt.edu<http://ci.icat.vt.edu>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu<http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu>
ico.bukvic.net<http://ico.bukvic.net>

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From jeff at morrismusic.org  Fri Oct 18 23:02:09 2024
From: jeff at morrismusic.org (Jeff Morris)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2024 22:02:09 -0500
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
Message-ID: <CANOA_5=5SPt+ux48t==mOpBn6RXsrLJDXd9dSfdo4kUkMUaAKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

I?m experiencing an issue with Pd-L2Ork on in macOS (v. 14.6.1 on an M2 Max
processor). When I launch Pd-L2Ork, it seems to initialize, but it doesn?t
respond when I try to open a new patch, an existing patch, or the audio
test patch. I can open the Settings window, but all menu options are blank.
This happens now with the latest Pd-L2Ork version (20241014), but the
problem actually started Wednesday while using the previous version.

The console output shows the following:

Welcome to Pd-L2Ork
nw.js version 0.67.1
GUI is starting Pd...
User app directory found. Skipping copying of the Pd-L2Ork apps into the
user folder...
GUI listening on port 5400 on host 127.0.0.1
Pd started.
Incoming connection to GUI

and that?s all.

I monitored port 5400 with tcpdump, and I see Pd trying the TCP handshake
periodically and when I try to make a new patcher. It always reports a bad
checksum:

tcpdump: listening on lo0, link-type NULL (BSD loopback), snapshot length
524288 bytes
16:30:49.377467 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 0, offset 0, flags [DF], proto TCP
(6), length 64, bad cksum 0 (->3cb6)!)
    localhost.51182 > localhost.excerpt: Flags [S], cksum 0xfe34 (incorrect
-> 0xec3c), seq 350244288, win 65535, options [mss 16344,nop,wscale
6,nop,nop,TS val 611757691 ecr 0,sackOK,eol], length 0

But GPT said that was fine: "These messages are common when capturing
traffic on the loopback interface (lo0) in some OS environments like macOS.
This happens because checksum offloading is done in hardware (which isn?t
visible to the capturing tool like tcpdump), so the checksum appears
incorrect, but it doesn?t actually impact the functionality." What do you
think? So far, this is the only error message I can find. i didn't see
anything meanjngful in system console logs, but i didn't have much of an
idea what to seek there.

While troubleshooting, I completely removed the app and reinstalled the
latest version of Pd-L2Ork from the official site, I disabled System
Integrity Protection (SIP) using csrutil disable, and I made sure Pd-L2Ork
had Full Disk Access and added it to Input Monitoring. I also tried running
Pd-L2Ork without the GUI using -nogui, but it starts without errors and
shows no improvement.

I also tried downlaoding Purr Data today, but macOS said the application
file was damaged and couldn't be opened (this didn't look like the usual
security cincern with downloaded programs), and I tried downloading it
twice.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

?


-- 
Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org
http://weblogmusic.org
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From ico at vt.edu  Fri Oct 18 23:48:48 2024
From: ico at vt.edu (Bukvic, Ivica)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2024 03:48:48 +0000
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
In-Reply-To: <CANOA_5=5SPt+ux48t==mOpBn6RXsrLJDXd9dSfdo4kUkMUaAKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOA_5=5SPt+ux48t==mOpBn6RXsrLJDXd9dSfdo4kUkMUaAKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB6895A4C672F5F749DDFADDF0C7412@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Thank you, Jeff, for your post. Was there a software update that may have taken place earlier this week that may have something to do with this? IF so, we would have to trace down the source of the problem which may lie in the older version of nw.js potentially not being anymore friendly to the newer version of the MacOS.

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu

ci.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2024 11:02:09 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Hello everyone,

I?m experiencing an issue with Pd-L2Ork on in macOS (v. 14.6.1 on an M2 Max processor). When I launch Pd-L2Ork, it seems to initialize, but it doesn?t respond when I try to open a new patch, an existing patch, or the audio test patch. I can open the Settings window, but all menu options are blank. This happens now with the latest Pd-L2Ork version (20241014), but the problem actually started Wednesday while using the previous version.

The console output shows the following:

Welcome to Pd-L2Ork
nw.js version 0.67.1
GUI is starting Pd...
User app directory found. Skipping copying of the Pd-L2Ork apps into the user folder...
GUI listening on port 5400 on host 127.0.0.1
Pd started.
Incoming connection to GUI

and that?s all.

I monitored port 5400 with tcpdump, and I see Pd trying the TCP handshake periodically and when I try to make a new patcher. It always reports a bad checksum:

tcpdump: listening on lo0, link-type NULL (BSD loopback), snapshot length 524288 bytes
16:30:49.377467 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 0, offset 0, flags [DF], proto TCP (6), length 64, bad cksum 0 (->3cb6)!)
    localhost.51182 > localhost.excerpt: Flags [S], cksum 0xfe34 (incorrect -> 0xec3c), seq 350244288, win 65535, options [mss 16344,nop,wscale 6,nop,nop,TS val 611757691 ecr 0,sackOK,eol], length 0

But GPT said that was fine: "These messages are common when capturing traffic on the loopback interface (lo0) in some OS environments like macOS. This happens because checksum offloading is done in hardware (which isn?t visible to the capturing tool like tcpdump), so the checksum appears incorrect, but it doesn?t actually impact the functionality." What do you think? So far, this is the only error message I can find. i didn't see anything meanjngful in system console logs, but i didn't have much of an idea what to seek there.

While troubleshooting, I completely removed the app and reinstalled the latest version of Pd-L2Ork from the official site, I disabled System Integrity Protection (SIP) using csrutil disable, and I made sure Pd-L2Ork had Full Disk Access and added it to Input Monitoring. I also tried running Pd-L2Ork without the GUI using -nogui, but it starts without errors and shows no improvement.

I also tried downlaoding Purr Data today, but macOS said the application file was damaged and couldn't be opened (this didn't look like the usual security cincern with downloaded programs), and I tried downloading it twice.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

?


--
Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>

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From ico at vt.edu  Fri Oct 18 23:50:54 2024
From: ico at vt.edu (Bukvic, Ivica)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2024 03:50:54 +0000
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB6895A4C672F5F749DDFADDF0C7412@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CANOA_5=5SPt+ux48t==mOpBn6RXsrLJDXd9dSfdo4kUkMUaAKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB6895A4C672F5F749DDFADDF0C7412@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB6895B84D5DEBE1B5DCBE1746C7412@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

You can also open the Dev console inside Pd-L2Ork GUI (found in the Help menu) and look for any potential errors. Also, check if you gave permission to Pd-L2Ork to open network ports. The engine and gui use them to talk to each other.

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu

ci.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2024 11:48:48 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Thank you, Jeff, for your post. Was there a software update that may have taken place earlier this week that may have something to do with this? IF so, we would have to trace down the source of the problem which may lie in the older version of nw.js potentially not being anymore friendly to the newer version of the MacOS.

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu

ci.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2024 11:02:09 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Hello everyone,

I?m experiencing an issue with Pd-L2Ork on in macOS (v. 14.6.1 on an M2 Max processor). When I launch Pd-L2Ork, it seems to initialize, but it doesn?t respond when I try to open a new patch, an existing patch, or the audio test patch. I can open the Settings window, but all menu options are blank. This happens now with the latest Pd-L2Ork version (20241014), but the problem actually started Wednesday while using the previous version.

The console output shows the following:

Welcome to Pd-L2Ork
nw.js version 0.67.1
GUI is starting Pd...
User app directory found. Skipping copying of the Pd-L2Ork apps into the user folder...
GUI listening on port 5400 on host 127.0.0.1
Pd started.
Incoming connection to GUI

and that?s all.

I monitored port 5400 with tcpdump, and I see Pd trying the TCP handshake periodically and when I try to make a new patcher. It always reports a bad checksum:

tcpdump: listening on lo0, link-type NULL (BSD loopback), snapshot length 524288 bytes
16:30:49.377467 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 0, offset 0, flags [DF], proto TCP (6), length 64, bad cksum 0 (->3cb6)!)
    localhost.51182 > localhost.excerpt: Flags [S], cksum 0xfe34 (incorrect -> 0xec3c), seq 350244288, win 65535, options [mss 16344,nop,wscale 6,nop,nop,TS val 611757691 ecr 0,sackOK,eol], length 0

But GPT said that was fine: "These messages are common when capturing traffic on the loopback interface (lo0) in some OS environments like macOS. This happens because checksum offloading is done in hardware (which isn?t visible to the capturing tool like tcpdump), so the checksum appears incorrect, but it doesn?t actually impact the functionality." What do you think? So far, this is the only error message I can find. i didn't see anything meanjngful in system console logs, but i didn't have much of an idea what to seek there.

While troubleshooting, I completely removed the app and reinstalled the latest version of Pd-L2Ork from the official site, I disabled System Integrity Protection (SIP) using csrutil disable, and I made sure Pd-L2Ork had Full Disk Access and added it to Input Monitoring. I also tried running Pd-L2Ork without the GUI using -nogui, but it starts without errors and shows no improvement.

I also tried downlaoding Purr Data today, but macOS said the application file was damaged and couldn't be opened (this didn't look like the usual security cincern with downloaded programs), and I tried downloading it twice.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

?


--
Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>

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From jeff at morrismusic.org  Sun Oct 20 13:10:33 2024
From: jeff at morrismusic.org (Jeff Morris)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:10:33 -0500
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
Message-ID: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Ico.

Hmm, well this is cute. I was about to send the message below, and then the
part about paths made me try deleting the plist again, and that fixed it!
Which is curious, because I did that many times yesterday, fixing nothing?I
checked my terminal history to be sure. So, I was about to delete all of
the following, and then Pd-L2Ork crashed upon quitting! It was nwjs
experiencing a memory segmentation fault, just like I had just written
about Purr Data doing.

So, something is still up, which makes me wonder if it's relevant to this
other issue that's been getting to me: [hid] yields a "couldn't create"
message (even if I download the external and open its help patcher from the
same folder as the external), and [mousestate] looks just fine but will
never do anything (even with polling on)?however, these issues affect me in
all versions of Pd as well as all of my students, so I thought it was
unrelated.

Anyway, here's the message I had been writing this morning, with the new
crash log at the bottom.

No new updates had been installed, and it had been running fine for months
prior; however, while troubleshooting yesterday, I did update to macOS 14.7
(with no improvement).

Whitelisting Pd-L2Ork in the firewall didn't help, and I had the firewall
off for some time while troubleshooting before.

In the DevTools console, I do see
TypeError [ERR_INVALID_ARG_TYPE]: The "path" argument must be of type
string. Received undefined        index.html:1

I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using sudo spctl
--master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon
quitting. The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a
memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.

Process:               nwjs [5931]
Path:                  /Applications/Purr-Data.app/Contents/MacOS/nwjs
Identifier:            net.purrdata.nwjs
Version:               2.20.0 (20241018-rev.2a261df4)
Code Type:             X86-64 (Translated)
Parent Process:        launchd [1]
User ID:               503

Date/Time:             2024-10-20 11:37:06.6460 -0500
OS Version:            macOS 14.7 (23H124)
Report Version:        12
Anonymous UUID:        1BC23BFE-C11F-4613-471A-0AE84A365533

Sleep/Wake UUID:       8AE49111-EF90-486A-AD0D-3EC481CCFFAA

Time Awake Since Boot: 3800 seconds
Time Since Wake:       2360 seconds

System Integrity Protection: enabled

Notes:
PC register does not match crashing frame (0x0 vs 0x102BBCAD0)

Crashed Thread:        0  CrBrowserMain  Dispatch queue:
com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type:        EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes:       KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000000000008
Exception Codes:       0x0000000000000001, 0x0000000000000008

Termination Reason:    Namespace SIGNAL, Code 11 Segmentation fault: 11
Terminating Process:   exc handler [5931]

VM Region Info: 0x8 is not in any region.  Bytes before following region:
4338950136
      REGION TYPE                    START - END         [ VSIZE] PRT/MAX
SHRMOD  REGION DETAIL
      UNUSED SPACE AT START
--->
      __TEXT                      1029f2000-102a1e000    [  176K] r-x/r-x
SM=COW  /Applications/Purr-Data.app/Contents/MacOS/nwjs

Error Formulating Crash Report:
PC register does not match crashing frame (0x0 vs 0x102BBCAD0)

______________________________

And here's the crash report from quitting Pd-L2Ork. Curiously, the macOS
Console didn't add a "Translated Report" at the top this time.

{"app_name":"nwjs","timestamp":"2024-10-20 11:49:22.00
-0500","app_version":"20241014","slice_uuid":"4c4c4433-5555-3144-a1b7-b7a16950b103","build_version":"rev.61476ebf","platform":1,"bundleID":"net.pd-l2ork.nwjs","share_with_app_devs":0,"is_first_party":0,"bug_type":"309","os_version":"macOS
14.7
(23H124)","roots_installed":0,"name":"nwjs","incident_id":"FA458F67-37F4-48EB-8938-E64603047CB0"}
{
  "uptime" : 4600,
  "procRole" : "Foreground",
  "version" : 2,
  "userID" : 503,
  "deployVersion" : 210,
  "modelCode" : "Mac14,6",
  "coalitionID" : 2356,
  "osVersion" : {
    "train" : "macOS 14.7",
    "build" : "23H124",
    "releaseType" : "User"
  },
  "captureTime" : "2024-10-20 11:49:17.1071 -0500",
  "codeSigningMonitor" : 1,
  "incident" : "FA458F67-37F4-48EB-8938-E64603047CB0",
  "pid" : 6737,
  "translated" : true,
  "cpuType" : "X86-64",
  "roots_installed" : 0,
  "bug_type" : "309",
  "procLaunch" : "2024-10-20 11:44:52.0551 -0500",
  "procStartAbsTime" : 104763426427,
  "procExitAbsTime" : 111124257500,
  "procName" : "nwjs",
  "procPath" : "\/Applications\/Pd-L2Ork.app\/Contents\/MacOS\/nwjs",
  "bundleInfo" :
{"CFBundleShortVersionString":"20241014","CFBundleVersion":"rev.61476ebf","CFBundleIdentifier":"net.pd-l2ork.nwjs"},
  "storeInfo" :
{"deviceIdentifierForVendor":"E70E8F79-8739-5220-93FD-F797E8F94304","thirdParty":true},
  "parentProc" : "launchd",
  "parentPid" : 1,
  "coalitionName" : "net.pd-l2ork.nwjs",
  "crashReporterKey" : "1BC23BFE-C11F-4613-471A-0AE84A365533",
  "codeSigningID" : "net.pd-l2ork.nwjs",
  "codeSigningTeamID" : "",
  "codeSigningFlags" : 570425345,
  "codeSigningValidationCategory" : 10,
  "codeSigningTrustLevel" : 4294967295,
  "wakeTime" : 3090,
  "sleepWakeUUID" : "8AE49111-EF90-486A-AD0D-3EC481CCFFAA",
  "sip" : "enabled",
  "vmRegionInfo" : "0x8 is not in any region.  Bytes before following
region: 4377985016\n      REGION TYPE                    START - END
  [ VSIZE] PRT\/MAX SHRMOD  REGION DETAIL\n      UNUSED SPACE AT
START\n--->  \n      __TEXT                      104f2c000-104f6c000    [
 256K] r-x\/r-x SM=COW
 \/Applications\/Pd-L2Ork.app\/Contents\/MacOS\/nwjs",
  "exception" : {"codes":"0x0000000000000001,
0x0000000000000008","rawCodes":[1,8],"type":"EXC_BAD_ACCESS","signal":"SIGSEGV","subtype":"KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS
at 0x0000000000000008"},
  "termination" :
{"flags":0,"code":11,"namespace":"SIGNAL","indicator":"Segmentation fault:
11","byProc":"exc handler","byPid":6737},
  "vmregioninfo" : "0x8 is not in any region.  Bytes before following
region: 4377985016\n      REGION TYPE                    START - END
  [ VSIZE] PRT\/MAX SHRMOD  REGION DETAIL\n      UNUSED SPACE AT
START\n--->  \n      __TEXT                      104f2c000-104f6c000    [
 256K] r-x\/r-x SM=COW
 \/Applications\/Pd-L2Ork.app\/Contents\/MacOS\/nwjs",
  "extMods" :
{"caller":{"thread_create":0,"thread_set_state":0,"task_for_pid":0},"system":{"thread_create":0,"thread_set_state":0,"task_for_pid":0},"targeted":{"thread_create":0,"thread_set_state":0,"task_for_pid":0},"warnings":0},
  "faultingThread" : 0,

Thanks,

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org
http://weblogmusic.org
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From ico at vt.edu  Sun Oct 20 13:53:25 2024
From: ico at vt.edu (Bukvic, Ivica)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2024 17:53:25 +0000
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
In-Reply-To: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB6895A204F97B1547751DB7CAC7422@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Thank you, Jeff. So, did erasing plist fix the start-up issue? If so, glad to hear.

Regarding downloading externals, you should not mix vanilla or Deke uzn externals with pd-l2ork, because they're not guaranteed to be binary compatible. In fact, we are increasingly diverging which is making this less and less safe. Recompiling external from the same spurce should be fairly straightforward, however, and as long as it has been recompiled and the object runs as expected, it should run fine.

With this in mind, it may be a good idea to separate issues of crashing while having third party externals open versus just pd-l2ork crashing.

Lastly, I think the node webkit that we are using is becoming increasingly outdated and that may play a role in issues that you might be encountering, especially if they have coincided with your OS update. One thing that you could do is download the latest version of node webkit (nw.jd) for your platform and once you unzip the file rename the newdound folder into nw and replace the one that's inside of the pd-l2ork app (I think the prepackaged new folder is in the Contents/Resources/app.nw/bin/ folder. If that fixes things, then it is likely a node webkit issue. That also is something that the crash log points towards.

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu

ci.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2024 1:10:33 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Thanks, Ico.

Hmm, well this is cute. I was about to send the message below, and then the part about paths made me try deleting the plist again, and that fixed it! Which is curious, because I did that many times yesterday, fixing nothing?I checked my terminal history to be sure. So, I was about to delete all of the following, and then Pd-L2Ork crashed upon quitting! It was nwjs experiencing a memory segmentation fault, just like I had just written about Purr Data doing.

So, something is still up, which makes me wonder if it's relevant to this other issue that's been getting to me: [hid] yields a "couldn't create" message (even if I download the external and open its help patcher from the same folder as the external), and [mousestate] looks just fine but will never do anything (even with polling on)?however, these issues affect me in all versions of Pd as well as all of my students, so I thought it was unrelated.

Anyway, here's the message I had been writing this morning, with the new crash log at the bottom.

No new updates had been installed, and it had been running fine for months prior; however, while troubleshooting yesterday, I did update to macOS 14.7 (with no improvement).

Whitelisting Pd-L2Ork in the firewall didn't help, and I had the firewall off for some time while troubleshooting before.

In the DevTools console, I do see
TypeError [ERR_INVALID_ARG_TYPE]: The "path" argument must be of type string. Received undefined        index.html:1

I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using sudo spctl --master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon quitting. The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.

Process:               nwjs [5931]
Path:                  /Applications/Purr-Data.app/Contents/MacOS/nwjs
Identifier:            net.purrdata.nwjs
Version:               2.20.0 (20241018-rev.2a261df4)
Code Type:             X86-64 (Translated)
Parent Process:        launchd [1]
User ID:               503

Date/Time:             2024-10-20 11:37:06.6460 -0500
OS Version:            macOS 14.7 (23H124)
Report Version:        12
Anonymous UUID:        1BC23BFE-C11F-4613-471A-0AE84A365533

Sleep/Wake UUID:       8AE49111-EF90-486A-AD0D-3EC481CCFFAA

Time Awake Since Boot: 3800 seconds
Time Since Wake:       2360 seconds

System Integrity Protection: enabled

Notes:
PC register does not match crashing frame (0x0 vs 0x102BBCAD0)

Crashed Thread:        0  CrBrowserMain  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type:        EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes:       KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000000000008
Exception Codes:       0x0000000000000001, 0x0000000000000008

Termination Reason:    Namespace SIGNAL, Code 11 Segmentation fault: 11
Terminating Process:   exc handler [5931]

VM Region Info: 0x8 is not in any region.  Bytes before following region: 4338950136
      REGION TYPE                    START - END         [ VSIZE] PRT/MAX SHRMOD  REGION DETAIL
      UNUSED SPACE AT START
--->
      __TEXT                      1029f2000-102a1e000    [  176K] r-x/r-x SM=COW  /Applications/Purr-Data.app/Contents/MacOS/nwjs

Error Formulating Crash Report:
PC register does not match crashing frame (0x0 vs 0x102BBCAD0)

______________________________

And here's the crash report from quitting Pd-L2Ork. Curiously, the macOS Console didn't add a "Translated Report" at the top this time.

{"app_name":"nwjs","timestamp":"2024-10-20 11:49:22.00 -0500","app_version":"20241014","slice_uuid":"4c4c4433-5555-3144-a1b7-b7a16950b103","build_version":"rev.61476ebf","platform":1,"bundleID":"net.pd-l2ork.nwjs","share_with_app_devs":0,"is_first_party":0,"bug_type":"309","os_version":"macOS 14.7 (23H124)","roots_installed":0,"name":"nwjs","incident_id":"FA458F67-37F4-48EB-8938-E64603047CB0"}
{
  "uptime" : 4600,
  "procRole" : "Foreground",
  "version" : 2,
  "userID" : 503,
  "deployVersion" : 210,
  "modelCode" : "Mac14,6",
  "coalitionID" : 2356,
  "osVersion" : {
    "train" : "macOS 14.7",
    "build" : "23H124",
    "releaseType" : "User"
  },
  "captureTime" : "2024-10-20 11:49:17.1071 -0500",
  "codeSigningMonitor" : 1,
  "incident" : "FA458F67-37F4-48EB-8938-E64603047CB0",
  "pid" : 6737,
  "translated" : true,
  "cpuType" : "X86-64",
  "roots_installed" : 0,
  "bug_type" : "309",
  "procLaunch" : "2024-10-20 11:44:52.0551 -0500",
  "procStartAbsTime" : 104763426427,
  "procExitAbsTime" : 111124257500,
  "procName" : "nwjs",
  "procPath" : "\/Applications\/Pd-L2Ork.app\/Contents\/MacOS\/nwjs",
  "bundleInfo" : {"CFBundleShortVersionString":"20241014","CFBundleVersion":"rev.61476ebf","CFBundleIdentifier":"net.pd-l2ork.nwjs"},
  "storeInfo" : {"deviceIdentifierForVendor":"E70E8F79-8739-5220-93FD-F797E8F94304","thirdParty":true},
  "parentProc" : "launchd",
  "parentPid" : 1,
  "coalitionName" : "net.pd-l2ork.nwjs",
  "crashReporterKey" : "1BC23BFE-C11F-4613-471A-0AE84A365533",
  "codeSigningID" : "net.pd-l2ork.nwjs",
  "codeSigningTeamID" : "",
  "codeSigningFlags" : 570425345,
  "codeSigningValidationCategory" : 10,
  "codeSigningTrustLevel" : 4294967295,
  "wakeTime" : 3090,
  "sleepWakeUUID" : "8AE49111-EF90-486A-AD0D-3EC481CCFFAA",
  "sip" : "enabled",
  "vmRegionInfo" : "0x8 is not in any region.  Bytes before following region: 4377985016\n      REGION TYPE                    START - END         [ VSIZE] PRT\/MAX SHRMOD  REGION DETAIL\n      UNUSED SPACE AT START\n--->  \n      __TEXT                      104f2c000-104f6c000    [  256K] r-x\/r-x SM=COW  \/Applications\/Pd-L2Ork.app\/Contents\/MacOS\/nwjs",
  "exception" : {"codes":"0x0000000000000001, 0x0000000000000008","rawCodes":[1,8],"type":"EXC_BAD_ACCESS","signal":"SIGSEGV","subtype":"KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000000000008"},
  "termination" : {"flags":0,"code":11,"namespace":"SIGNAL","indicator":"Segmentation fault: 11","byProc":"exc handler","byPid":6737},
  "vmregioninfo" : "0x8 is not in any region.  Bytes before following region: 4377985016\n      REGION TYPE                    START - END         [ VSIZE] PRT\/MAX SHRMOD  REGION DETAIL\n      UNUSED SPACE AT START\n--->  \n      __TEXT                      104f2c000-104f6c000    [  256K] r-x\/r-x SM=COW  \/Applications\/Pd-L2Ork.app\/Contents\/MacOS\/nwjs",
  "extMods" : {"caller":{"thread_create":0,"thread_set_state":0,"task_for_pid":0},"system":{"thread_create":0,"thread_set_state":0,"task_for_pid":0},"targeted":{"thread_create":0,"thread_set_state":0,"task_for_pid":0},"warnings":0},
  "faultingThread" : 0,

Thanks,

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>
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From ico at vt.edu  Sun Oct 20 13:54:26 2024
From: ico at vt.edu (Bukvic, Ivica)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2024 17:54:26 +0000
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB6895A204F97B1547751DB7CAC7422@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB6895A204F97B1547751DB7CAC7422@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB689577ABEA091DE4104333ECC7422@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

That should've read Deken (not Deke uzn). Hope this helps.

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu

ci.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net

________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2024 1:53:43 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Thank you, Jeff. So, did erasing plist fix the start-up issue? If so, glad to hear.

Regarding downloading externals, you should not mix vanilla or Deke uzn externals with pd-l2ork, because they're not guaranteed to be binary compatible. In fact, we are increasingly diverging which is making this less and less safe. Recompiling external from the same spurce should be fairly straightforward, however, and as long as it has been recompiled and the object runs as expected, it should run fine.

With this in mind, it may be a good idea to separate issues of crashing while having third party externals open versus just pd-l2ork crashing.

Lastly, I think the node webkit that we are using is becoming increasingly outdated and that may play a role in issues that you might be encountering, especially if they have coincided with your OS update. One thing that you could do is download the latest version of node webkit (nw.jd) for your platform and once you unzip the file rename the newdound folder into nw and replace the one that's inside of the pd-l2ork app (I think the prepackaged new folder is in the Contents/Resources/app.nw/bin/ folder. If that fixes things, then it is likely a node webkit issue. That also is something that the crash log points towards.

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu

ci.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2024 1:10:33 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Thanks, Ico.

Hmm, well this is cute. I was about to send the message below, and then the part about paths made me try deleting the plist again, and that fixed it! Which is curious, because I did that many times yesterday, fixing nothing?I checked my terminal history to be sure. So, I was about to delete all of the following, and then Pd-L2Ork crashed upon quitting! It was nwjs experiencing a memory segmentation fault, just like I had just written about Purr Data doing.

So, something is still up, which makes me wonder if it's relevant to this other issue that's been getting to me: [hid] yields a "couldn't create" message (even if I download the external and open its help patcher from the same folder as the external), and [mousestate] looks just fine but will never do anything (even with polling on)?however, these issues affect me in all versions of Pd as well as all of my students, so I thought it was unrelated.

Anyway, here's the message I had been writing this morning, with the new crash log at the bottom.

No new updates had been installed, and it had been running fine for months prior; however, while troubleshooting yesterday, I did update to macOS 14.7 (with no improvement).

Whitelisting Pd-L2Ork in the firewall didn't help, and I had the firewall off for some time while troubleshooting before.

In the DevTools console, I do see
TypeError [ERR_INVALID_ARG_TYPE]: The "path" argument must be of type string. Received undefined        index.html:1

I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using sudo spctl --master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon quitting. The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.

Process:               nwjs [5931]
Path:                  /Applications/Purr-Data.app/Contents/MacOS/nwjs
Identifier:            net.purrdata.nwjs
Version:               2.20.0 (20241018-rev.2a261df4)
Code Type:             X86-64 (Translated)
Parent Process:        launchd [1]
User ID:               503

Date/Time:             2024-10-20 11:37:06.6460 -0500
OS Version:            macOS 14.7 (23H124)
Report Version:        12
Anonymous UUID:        1BC23BFE-C11F-4613-471A-0AE84A365533

Sleep/Wake UUID:       8AE49111-EF90-486A-AD0D-3EC481CCFFAA

Time Awake Since Boot: 3800 seconds
Time Since Wake:       2360 seconds

System Integrity Protection: enabled

Notes:
PC register does not match crashing frame (0x0 vs 0x102BBCAD0)

Crashed Thread:        0  CrBrowserMain  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type:        EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes:       KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000000000008
Exception Codes:       0x0000000000000001, 0x0000000000000008

Termination Reason:    Namespace SIGNAL, Code 11 Segmentation fault: 11
Terminating Process:   exc handler [5931]

VM Region Info: 0x8 is not in any region.  Bytes before following region: 4338950136
      REGION TYPE                    START - END         [ VSIZE] PRT/MAX SHRMOD  REGION DETAIL
      UNUSED SPACE AT START
--->
      __TEXT                      1029f2000-102a1e000    [  176K] r-x/r-x SM=COW  /Applications/Purr-Data.app/Contents/MacOS/nwjs

Error Formulating Crash Report:
PC register does not match crashing frame (0x0 vs 0x102BBCAD0)

______________________________

And here's the crash report from quitting Pd-L2Ork. Curiously, the macOS Console didn't add a "Translated Report" at the top this time.

{"app_name":"nwjs","timestamp":"2024-10-20 11:49:22.00 -0500","app_version":"20241014","slice_uuid":"4c4c4433-5555-3144-a1b7-b7a16950b103","build_version":"rev.61476ebf","platform":1,"bundleID":"net.pd-l2ork.nwjs","share_with_app_devs":0,"is_first_party":0,"bug_type":"309","os_version":"macOS 14.7 (23H124)","roots_installed":0,"name":"nwjs","incident_id":"FA458F67-37F4-48EB-8938-E64603047CB0"}
{
  "uptime" : 4600,
  "procRole" : "Foreground",
  "version" : 2,
  "userID" : 503,
  "deployVersion" : 210,
  "modelCode" : "Mac14,6",
  "coalitionID" : 2356,
  "osVersion" : {
    "train" : "macOS 14.7",
    "build" : "23H124",
    "releaseType" : "User"
  },
  "captureTime" : "2024-10-20 11:49:17.1071 -0500",
  "codeSigningMonitor" : 1,
  "incident" : "FA458F67-37F4-48EB-8938-E64603047CB0",
  "pid" : 6737,
  "translated" : true,
  "cpuType" : "X86-64",
  "roots_installed" : 0,
  "bug_type" : "309",
  "procLaunch" : "2024-10-20 11:44:52.0551 -0500",
  "procStartAbsTime" : 104763426427,
  "procExitAbsTime" : 111124257500,
  "procName" : "nwjs",
  "procPath" : "\/Applications\/Pd-L2Ork.app\/Contents\/MacOS\/nwjs",
  "bundleInfo" : {"CFBundleShortVersionString":"20241014","CFBundleVersion":"rev.61476ebf","CFBundleIdentifier":"net.pd-l2ork.nwjs"},
  "storeInfo" : {"deviceIdentifierForVendor":"E70E8F79-8739-5220-93FD-F797E8F94304","thirdParty":true},
  "parentProc" : "launchd",
  "parentPid" : 1,
  "coalitionName" : "net.pd-l2ork.nwjs",
  "crashReporterKey" : "1BC23BFE-C11F-4613-471A-0AE84A365533",
  "codeSigningID" : "net.pd-l2ork.nwjs",
  "codeSigningTeamID" : "",
  "codeSigningFlags" : 570425345,
  "codeSigningValidationCategory" : 10,
  "codeSigningTrustLevel" : 4294967295,
  "wakeTime" : 3090,
  "sleepWakeUUID" : "8AE49111-EF90-486A-AD0D-3EC481CCFFAA",
  "sip" : "enabled",
  "vmRegionInfo" : "0x8 is not in any region.  Bytes before following region: 4377985016\n      REGION TYPE                    START - END         [ VSIZE] PRT\/MAX SHRMOD  REGION DETAIL\n      UNUSED SPACE AT START\n--->  \n      __TEXT                      104f2c000-104f6c000    [  256K] r-x\/r-x SM=COW  \/Applications\/Pd-L2Ork.app\/Contents\/MacOS\/nwjs",
  "exception" : {"codes":"0x0000000000000001, 0x0000000000000008","rawCodes":[1,8],"type":"EXC_BAD_ACCESS","signal":"SIGSEGV","subtype":"KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000000000008"},
  "termination" : {"flags":0,"code":11,"namespace":"SIGNAL","indicator":"Segmentation fault: 11","byProc":"exc handler","byPid":6737},
  "vmregioninfo" : "0x8 is not in any region.  Bytes before following region: 4377985016\n      REGION TYPE                    START - END         [ VSIZE] PRT\/MAX SHRMOD  REGION DETAIL\n      UNUSED SPACE AT START\n--->  \n      __TEXT                      104f2c000-104f6c000    [  256K] r-x\/r-x SM=COW  \/Applications\/Pd-L2Ork.app\/Contents\/MacOS\/nwjs",
  "extMods" : {"caller":{"thread_create":0,"thread_set_state":0,"task_for_pid":0},"system":{"thread_create":0,"thread_set_state":0,"task_for_pid":0},"targeted":{"thread_create":0,"thread_set_state":0,"task_for_pid":0},"warnings":0},
  "faultingThread" : 0,

Thanks,

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>

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From aggraef at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 03:56:47 2024
From: aggraef at gmail.com (Albert Graef)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:56:47 +0200
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
In-Reply-To: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+rUic2Zg8Q1DoeTKQDptamPP=Jt_o4ZHFxZuMF71uZPVEseeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jeff,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 7:15?PM Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org> wrote:

> I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using sudo spctl
> --master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon
> quitting. The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a
> memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.
>

Completely disabling Gatekeeper shouldn't be necessary. At least with the
latest 2.20.0 version, just removing the com.apple.quarantine attribute
after installation should be enough (cf.
https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation):
sudo xattr -r -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/Purr-Data.app

The nw.js crash-on-exit is a known bug:
https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/issues/44. You can work around the
annoying popup message from the OS as described in the ticket. Other than
that, this bug is mostly harmless since the nw.js crash happens after
purr-data already went through its entire finalization sequence. And you
can also avoid the bug by closing all patch windows before exiting the
program. At least that works for me on Big Sur (old Intel MB) and Sonoma
(MB M1), your mileage may vary.

As Ico already pointed out, there are various issues with the nw.js
versions that we use. Probably the most serious regression is that NW2, the
new browser window implementation being used as default in nw.js 0.42.4 and
later, has some severe performance problems with dynamic code execution in
the JavaScript interpreter. This makes rendering dynamic svg graphics on
the canvas (such as array displays and pd-lua graphics) horribly slow,
which is why both pd-l2ork and purr-data switch nw.js to the old NW1
implementation. (Ico first discovered this and reported it upstream some
two years ago, but we still need to produce a minimal example for the issue
before it will be considered.)

This in turn limits the nw.js versions that we can use, because anything
past nw.js 0.67.1 has broken window management in NW1 mode. The
crash-on-exit bug on macOS is also related to the use of NW1 AFAICT.
Moreover, on Linux, nw.js 0.56.0 and later have another serious bug
(nwworkingdir not working, which means that file dialogs will open in the
wrong places) which AFAICT has never been fixed. Which is why I decided to
go with nw.js 0.55.0 in purr-data 2.20.0, which is pretty much the last
nw.js version that works without any serious regressions on all major
platforms.

But note that purr-data also includes a little shell script which lets you
experiment with different nw.js versions and switch between NW1 and NW2, to
find out what works best for you. See
https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation#patching-purr-datas-nwjs.
(I doubt that the script will work with pd-l2ork as-is, but you can
probably adjust it if needed, if you know a little shell programming.)

HTH,
Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
Email: aggraef at gmail.com, web: https://agraef.github.io/
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From jeff at morrismusic.org  Mon Oct 21 13:16:51 2024
From: jeff at morrismusic.org (Jeff Morris)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2024 12:16:51 -0500
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+rUic2Zg8Q1DoeTKQDptamPP=Jt_o4ZHFxZuMF71uZPVEseeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+rUic2Zg8Q1DoeTKQDptamPP=Jt_o4ZHFxZuMF71uZPVEseeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANOA_5kJuAt7vWU8kv2AKzoUshcyHVSQ1bJbB2B_Bg0SQmhELw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank, Albert and Ico,

This is enlightening information about the lower-level state of things.

So what do you guys use to get game controllers to work with your patches
if not [hid]?

Any idea what's up with [cyclone/mousestate]? It loads without error but
never produces any output, and I don't see anything in the DevTools
console. Clicking [poll( sometimes produces these messages in the Pd
console:

legacy tcl command at 473 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: global
hammergui_ispolling
legacy tcl command at 474 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: set
hammergui_ispolling 1
legacy tcl command at 475 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: hammergui_poll

And yes, for Purr-Data 2.20, I tried removing the quarantine attribute
first and it wasn't until I used spctl that I got it to work.

Thanks,

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org
http://weblogmusic.org


On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 2:57?AM Albert Graef <aggraef at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Jeff,
>
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 7:15?PM Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org> wrote:
>
>> I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using sudo spctl
>> --master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon
>> quitting. The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a
>> memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.
>>
>
> Completely disabling Gatekeeper shouldn't be necessary. At least with the
> latest 2.20.0 version, just removing the com.apple.quarantine attribute
> after installation should be enough (cf.
> https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation):
> sudo xattr -r -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/Purr-Data.app
>
> The nw.js crash-on-exit is a known bug:
> https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/issues/44. You can work around the
> annoying popup message from the OS as described in the ticket. Other than
> that, this bug is mostly harmless since the nw.js crash happens after
> purr-data already went through its entire finalization sequence. And you
> can also avoid the bug by closing all patch windows before exiting the
> program. At least that works for me on Big Sur (old Intel MB) and Sonoma
> (MB M1), your mileage may vary.
>
> As Ico already pointed out, there are various issues with the nw.js
> versions that we use. Probably the most serious regression is that NW2, the
> new browser window implementation being used as default in nw.js 0.42.4 and
> later, has some severe performance problems with dynamic code execution in
> the JavaScript interpreter. This makes rendering dynamic svg graphics on
> the canvas (such as array displays and pd-lua graphics) horribly slow,
> which is why both pd-l2ork and purr-data switch nw.js to the old NW1
> implementation. (Ico first discovered this and reported it upstream some
> two years ago, but we still need to produce a minimal example for the issue
> before it will be considered.)
>
> This in turn limits the nw.js versions that we can use, because anything
> past nw.js 0.67.1 has broken window management in NW1 mode. The
> crash-on-exit bug on macOS is also related to the use of NW1 AFAICT.
> Moreover, on Linux, nw.js 0.56.0 and later have another serious bug
> (nwworkingdir not working, which means that file dialogs will open in the
> wrong places) which AFAICT has never been fixed. Which is why I decided to
> go with nw.js 0.55.0 in purr-data 2.20.0, which is pretty much the last
> nw.js version that works without any serious regressions on all major
> platforms.
>
> But note that purr-data also includes a little shell script which lets you
> experiment with different nw.js versions and switch between NW1 and NW2, to
> find out what works best for you. See
> https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation#patching-purr-datas-nwjs.
> (I doubt that the script will work with pd-l2ork as-is, but you can
> probably adjust it if needed, if you know a little shell programming.)
>
> HTH,
> Albert
>
> --
> Dr. Albert Gr"af
> Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
> Email: aggraef at gmail.com, web: https://agraef.github.io/
> _______________________________________________
> L2Ork-dev mailing list
> L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu
> https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
>
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From ico at vt.edu  Mon Oct 21 13:51:17 2024
From: ico at vt.edu (Bukvic, Ivica)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:51:17 +0000
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
In-Reply-To: <CANOA_5kJuAt7vWU8kv2AKzoUshcyHVSQ1bJbB2B_Bg0SQmhELw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+rUic2Zg8Q1DoeTKQDptamPP=Jt_o4ZHFxZuMF71uZPVEseeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANOA_5kJuAt7vWU8kv2AKzoUshcyHVSQ1bJbB2B_Bg0SQmhELw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB6895B3211373A1371DD0D1D0C7432@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

For mouse you should use legacy_mouse or something like that. I will look it up once I am back at the computer.

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu

ci.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2024 1:16:51 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Thank, Albert and Ico,

This is enlightening information about the lower-level state of things.

So what do you guys use to get game controllers to work with your patches if not [hid]?

Any idea what's up with [cyclone/mousestate]? It loads without error but never produces any output, and I don't see anything in the DevTools console. Clicking [poll( sometimes produces these messages in the Pd console:

legacy tcl command at 473 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: global hammergui_ispolling
legacy tcl command at 474 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: set hammergui_ispolling 1
legacy tcl command at 475 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: hammergui_poll

And yes, for Purr-Data 2.20, I tried removing the quarantine attribute first and it wasn't until I used spctl that I got it to work.

Thanks,

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>


On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 2:57?AM Albert Graef <aggraef at gmail.com<mailto:aggraef at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Jeff,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 7:15?PM Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org<mailto:jeff at morrismusic.org>> wrote:
I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using sudo spctl --master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon quitting. The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.

Completely disabling Gatekeeper shouldn't be necessary. At least with the latest 2.20.0 version, just removing the com.apple.quarantine attribute after installation should be enough (cf. https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation):
sudo xattr -r -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/Purr-Data.app

The nw.js crash-on-exit is a known bug: https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/issues/44. You can work around the annoying popup message from the OS as described in the ticket. Other than that, this bug is mostly harmless since the nw.js crash happens after purr-data already went through its entire finalization sequence. And you can also avoid the bug by closing all patch windows before exiting the program. At least that works for me on Big Sur (old Intel MB) and Sonoma (MB M1), your mileage may vary.

As Ico already pointed out, there are various issues with the nw.js versions that we use. Probably the most serious regression is that NW2, the new browser window implementation being used as default in nw.js 0.42.4 and later, has some severe performance problems with dynamic code execution in the JavaScript interpreter. This makes rendering dynamic svg graphics on the canvas (such as array displays and pd-lua graphics) horribly slow, which is why both pd-l2ork and purr-data switch nw.js to the old NW1 implementation. (Ico first discovered this and reported it upstream some two years ago, but we still need to produce a minimal example for the issue before it will be considered.)

This in turn limits the nw.js versions that we can use, because anything past nw.js 0.67.1 has broken window management in NW1 mode. The crash-on-exit bug on macOS is also related to the use of NW1 AFAICT. Moreover, on Linux, nw.js 0.56.0 and later have another serious bug (nwworkingdir not working, which means that file dialogs will open in the wrong places) which AFAICT has never been fixed. Which is why I decided to go with nw.js 0.55.0 in purr-data 2.20.0, which is pretty much the last nw.js version that works without any serious regressions on all major platforms.

But note that purr-data also includes a little shell script which lets you experiment with different nw.js versions and switch between NW1 and NW2, to find out what works best for you. See https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation#patching-purr-datas-nwjs. (I doubt that the script will work with pd-l2ork as-is, but you can probably adjust it if needed, if you know a little shell programming.)

HTH,
Albert

--
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
Email: aggraef at gmail.com<mailto:aggraef at gmail.com>, web: https://agraef.github.io/
_______________________________________________
L2Ork-dev mailing list
L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
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From jeff at morrismusic.org  Mon Oct 21 16:08:07 2024
From: jeff at morrismusic.org (Jeff Morris)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2024 15:08:07 -0500
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB6895B3211373A1371DD0D1D0C7432@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+rUic2Zg8Q1DoeTKQDptamPP=Jt_o4ZHFxZuMF71uZPVEseeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANOA_5kJuAt7vWU8kv2AKzoUshcyHVSQ1bJbB2B_Bg0SQmhELw@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB6895B3211373A1371DD0D1D0C7432@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CANOA_5ngwBPhO7p1Vr31_5kdy9bnS_=SB1ShyrXaO++UdnTmfw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks. [legacy_mouseclick] and [legacy_mousemotion] work for me if I
delete the full path from the name. However, I wonder how worried I should
be about those messages in their help patchers saying things like "old
legacy," "isn't stable," and "Don't depend on it."

If there's a more appropriate way to get the mouse data, I'd like to know
it. And I am still curious about HID control, whenever someone gets a
chance to pipe in.

Thanks,

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org
http://weblogmusic.org


On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 12:51?PM Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu> wrote:

> For mouse you should use legacy_mouse or something like that. I will look
> it up once I am back at the computer.
>
> Best,
>
> Ico
> --
> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
> Director, Creativity + Innovation
> Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology
>
> Virginia Tech
> Creative Technologies in Music
> School of Performing Arts ? 0141
> Blacksburg, VA 24061
> (540) 231-6139
> ico at vt.edu
>
> ci.icat.vt.edu
> l2ork.icat.vt.edu
> ico.bukvic.net
> ------------------------------
> *From:* L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 21, 2024 1:16:51 PM
> *To:* l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up
>
> Thank, Albert and Ico,
>
> This is enlightening information about the lower-level state of things.
>
> So what do you guys use to get game controllers to work with your patches
> if not [hid]?
>
> Any idea what's up with [cyclone/mousestate]? It loads without error but
> never produces any output, and I don't see anything in the DevTools
> console. Clicking [poll( sometimes produces these messages in the Pd
> console:
>
> legacy tcl command at 473 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: global
> hammergui_ispolling
> legacy tcl command at 474 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: set
> hammergui_ispolling 1
> legacy tcl command at 475 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: hammergui_poll
>
> And yes, for Purr-Data 2.20, I tried removing the quarantine attribute
> first and it wasn't until I used spctl that I got it to work.
>
> Thanks,
>
> ?
>
> Jeff Morris
> http://morrismusic.org
> http://weblogmusic.org
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 2:57?AM Albert Graef <aggraef at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 7:15?PM Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org> wrote:
>
> I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using sudo spctl
> --master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon
> quitting. The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a
> memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.
>
>
> Completely disabling Gatekeeper shouldn't be necessary. At least with the
> latest 2.20.0 version, just removing the com.apple.quarantine attribute
> after installation should be enough (cf.
> https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation):
> sudo xattr -r -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/Purr-Data.app
>
> The nw.js crash-on-exit is a known bug:
> https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/issues/44. You can work around the
> annoying popup message from the OS as described in the ticket. Other than
> that, this bug is mostly harmless since the nw.js crash happens after
> purr-data already went through its entire finalization sequence. And you
> can also avoid the bug by closing all patch windows before exiting the
> program. At least that works for me on Big Sur (old Intel MB) and Sonoma
> (MB M1), your mileage may vary.
>
> As Ico already pointed out, there are various issues with the nw.js
> versions that we use. Probably the most serious regression is that NW2, the
> new browser window implementation being used as default in nw.js 0.42.4 and
> later, has some severe performance problems with dynamic code execution in
> the JavaScript interpreter. This makes rendering dynamic svg graphics on
> the canvas (such as array displays and pd-lua graphics) horribly slow,
> which is why both pd-l2ork and purr-data switch nw.js to the old NW1
> implementation. (Ico first discovered this and reported it upstream some
> two years ago, but we still need to produce a minimal example for the issue
> before it will be considered.)
>
> This in turn limits the nw.js versions that we can use, because anything
> past nw.js 0.67.1 has broken window management in NW1 mode. The
> crash-on-exit bug on macOS is also related to the use of NW1 AFAICT.
> Moreover, on Linux, nw.js 0.56.0 and later have another serious bug
> (nwworkingdir not working, which means that file dialogs will open in the
> wrong places) which AFAICT has never been fixed. Which is why I decided to
> go with nw.js 0.55.0 in purr-data 2.20.0, which is pretty much the last
> nw.js version that works without any serious regressions on all major
> platforms.
>
> But note that purr-data also includes a little shell script which lets you
> experiment with different nw.js versions and switch between NW1 and NW2, to
> find out what works best for you. See
> https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation#patching-purr-datas-nwjs.
> (I doubt that the script will work with pd-l2ork as-is, but you can
> probably adjust it if needed, if you know a little shell programming.)
>
> HTH,
> Albert
>
> --
> Dr. Albert Gr"af
> Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
> Email: aggraef at gmail.com, web: https://agraef.github.io/
> _______________________________________________
> L2Ork-dev mailing list
> L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu
> https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> L2Ork-dev mailing list
> L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu
> https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
>
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From ico at vt.edu  Mon Oct 21 20:47:09 2024
From: ico at vt.edu (Bukvic, Ivica)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2024 00:47:09 +0000
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
In-Reply-To: <CANOA_5ngwBPhO7p1Vr31_5kdy9bnS_=SB1ShyrXaO++UdnTmfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+rUic2Zg8Q1DoeTKQDptamPP=Jt_o4ZHFxZuMF71uZPVEseeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANOA_5kJuAt7vWU8kv2AKzoUshcyHVSQ1bJbB2B_Bg0SQmhELw@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB6895B3211373A1371DD0D1D0C7432@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CANOA_5ngwBPhO7p1Vr31_5kdy9bnS_=SB1ShyrXaO++UdnTmfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB68958BED148238C042603BC0C74C2@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks, Jeff. I use those objects periodically and they have never failed me. This is just an old help patch and those comments should be ignored. I will look into adding HID object to the pd-l2ork build. Would you please send me a link to the source? Also, does it work on all OSs?

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu

ci.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2024 4:08:07 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Thanks. [legacy_mouseclick] and [legacy_mousemotion] work for me if I delete the full path from the name. However, I wonder how worried I should be about those messages in their help patchers saying things like "old legacy," "isn't stable," and "Don't depend on it."

If there's a more appropriate way to get the mouse data, I'd like to know it. And I am still curious about HID control, whenever someone gets a chance to pipe in.

Thanks,

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>


On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 12:51?PM Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>> wrote:
For mouse you should use legacy_mouse or something like that. I will look it up once I am back at the computer.

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>

ci.icat.vt.edu<http://ci.icat.vt.edu/>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu<http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/>
ico.bukvic.net<http://ico.bukvic.net/>
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu>> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org<mailto:jeff at morrismusic.org>>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2024 1:16:51 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu> <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Thank, Albert and Ico,

This is enlightening information about the lower-level state of things.

So what do you guys use to get game controllers to work with your patches if not [hid]?

Any idea what's up with [cyclone/mousestate]? It loads without error but never produces any output, and I don't see anything in the DevTools console. Clicking [poll( sometimes produces these messages in the Pd console:

legacy tcl command at 473 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: global hammergui_ispolling
legacy tcl command at 474 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: set hammergui_ispolling 1
legacy tcl command at 475 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: hammergui_poll

And yes, for Purr-Data 2.20, I tried removing the quarantine attribute first and it wasn't until I used spctl that I got it to work.

Thanks,

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>


On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 2:57?AM Albert Graef <aggraef at gmail.com<mailto:aggraef at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Jeff,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 7:15?PM Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org<mailto:jeff at morrismusic.org>> wrote:
I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using sudo spctl --master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon quitting. The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.

Completely disabling Gatekeeper shouldn't be necessary. At least with the latest 2.20.0 version, just removing the com.apple.quarantine attribute after installation should be enough (cf. https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation):
sudo xattr -r -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/Purr-Data.app

The nw.js crash-on-exit is a known bug: https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/issues/44. You can work around the annoying popup message from the OS as described in the ticket. Other than that, this bug is mostly harmless since the nw.js crash happens after purr-data already went through its entire finalization sequence. And you can also avoid the bug by closing all patch windows before exiting the program. At least that works for me on Big Sur (old Intel MB) and Sonoma (MB M1), your mileage may vary.

As Ico already pointed out, there are various issues with the nw.js versions that we use. Probably the most serious regression is that NW2, the new browser window implementation being used as default in nw.js 0.42.4 and later, has some severe performance problems with dynamic code execution in the JavaScript interpreter. This makes rendering dynamic svg graphics on the canvas (such as array displays and pd-lua graphics) horribly slow, which is why both pd-l2ork and purr-data switch nw.js to the old NW1 implementation. (Ico first discovered this and reported it upstream some two years ago, but we still need to produce a minimal example for the issue before it will be considered.)

This in turn limits the nw.js versions that we can use, because anything past nw.js 0.67.1 has broken window management in NW1 mode. The crash-on-exit bug on macOS is also related to the use of NW1 AFAICT. Moreover, on Linux, nw.js 0.56.0 and later have another serious bug (nwworkingdir not working, which means that file dialogs will open in the wrong places) which AFAICT has never been fixed. Which is why I decided to go with nw.js 0.55.0 in purr-data 2.20.0, which is pretty much the last nw.js version that works without any serious regressions on all major platforms.

But note that purr-data also includes a little shell script which lets you experiment with different nw.js versions and switch between NW1 and NW2, to find out what works best for you. See https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation#patching-purr-datas-nwjs. (I doubt that the script will work with pd-l2ork as-is, but you can probably adjust it if needed, if you know a little shell programming.)

HTH,
Albert

--
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
Email: aggraef at gmail.com<mailto:aggraef at gmail.com>, web: https://agraef.github.io/
_______________________________________________
L2Ork-dev mailing list
L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
_______________________________________________
L2Ork-dev mailing list
L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
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From jeff at morrismusic.org  Tue Oct 22 20:02:39 2024
From: jeff at morrismusic.org (Jeff Morris)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2024 19:02:39 -0500
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB68958BED148238C042603BC0C74C2@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+rUic2Zg8Q1DoeTKQDptamPP=Jt_o4ZHFxZuMF71uZPVEseeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANOA_5kJuAt7vWU8kv2AKzoUshcyHVSQ1bJbB2B_Bg0SQmhELw@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB6895B3211373A1371DD0D1D0C7432@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CANOA_5ngwBPhO7p1Vr31_5kdy9bnS_=SB1ShyrXaO++UdnTmfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB68958BED148238C042603BC0C74C2@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CANOA_5msQN7O4w9LyR7WLcJEZSh7dhwNpenWM_qW6oApZDbzZw@mail.gmail.com>

Good to know.

As far as HID externals, IEM lists four at
https://pd.iem.sh/interface-pd-with/

And among them, only one is listed for Linux, macOS, and Windows, and it's
been updated this year (thanks, Lucas Cordiviola):
https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-hidraw

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org
http://weblogmusic.org


On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 7:47?PM Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu> wrote:

> Thanks, Jeff. I use those objects periodically and they have never failed
> me. This is just an old help patch and those comments should be ignored. I
> will look into adding HID object to the pd-l2ork build. Would you please
> send me a link to the source? Also, does it work on all OSs?
>
> Best,
>
> Ico
> --
> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
> Director, Creativity + Innovation
> Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology
>
> Virginia Tech
> Creative Technologies in Music
> School of Performing Arts ? 0141
> Blacksburg, VA 24061
> (540) 231-6139
> ico at vt.edu
>
> ci.icat.vt.edu
> l2ork.icat.vt.edu
> ico.bukvic.net
> ------------------------------
> *From:* L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 21, 2024 4:08:07 PM
> *To:* l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up
>
> Thanks. [legacy_mouseclick] and [legacy_mousemotion] work for me if I
> delete the full path from the name. However, I wonder how worried I should
> be about those messages in their help patchers saying things like "old
> legacy," "isn't stable," and "Don't depend on it."
>
> If there's a more appropriate way to get the mouse data, I'd like to know
> it. And I am still curious about HID control, whenever someone gets a
> chance to pipe in.
>
> Thanks,
>
> ?
>
> Jeff Morris
> http://morrismusic.org
> http://weblogmusic.org
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 12:51?PM Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu> wrote:
>
> For mouse you should use legacy_mouse or something like that. I will look
> it up once I am back at the computer.
>
> Best,
>
> Ico
> --
> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
> Director, Creativity + Innovation
> Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology
>
> Virginia Tech
> Creative Technologies in Music
> School of Performing Arts ? 0141
> Blacksburg, VA 24061
> (540) 231-6139
> ico at vt.edu
>
> ci.icat.vt.edu
> l2ork.icat.vt.edu
> ico.bukvic.net
> ------------------------------
> *From:* L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 21, 2024 1:16:51 PM
> *To:* l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up
>
> Thank, Albert and Ico,
>
> This is enlightening information about the lower-level state of things.
>
> So what do you guys use to get game controllers to work with your patches
> if not [hid]?
>
> Any idea what's up with [cyclone/mousestate]? It loads without error but
> never produces any output, and I don't see anything in the DevTools
> console. Clicking [poll( sometimes produces these messages in the Pd
> console:
>
> legacy tcl command at 473 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: global
> hammergui_ispolling
> legacy tcl command at 474 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: set
> hammergui_ispolling 1
> legacy tcl command at 475 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: hammergui_poll
>
> And yes, for Purr-Data 2.20, I tried removing the quarantine attribute
> first and it wasn't until I used spctl that I got it to work.
>
> Thanks,
>
> ?
>
> Jeff Morris
> http://morrismusic.org
> http://weblogmusic.org
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 2:57?AM Albert Graef <aggraef at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 7:15?PM Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org> wrote:
>
> I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using sudo spctl
> --master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon
> quitting. The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a
> memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.
>
>
> Completely disabling Gatekeeper shouldn't be necessary. At least with the
> latest 2.20.0 version, just removing the com.apple.quarantine attribute
> after installation should be enough (cf.
> https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation):
> sudo xattr -r -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/Purr-Data.app
>
> The nw.js crash-on-exit is a known bug:
> https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/issues/44. You can work around the
> annoying popup message from the OS as described in the ticket. Other than
> that, this bug is mostly harmless since the nw.js crash happens after
> purr-data already went through its entire finalization sequence. And you
> can also avoid the bug by closing all patch windows before exiting the
> program. At least that works for me on Big Sur (old Intel MB) and Sonoma
> (MB M1), your mileage may vary.
>
> As Ico already pointed out, there are various issues with the nw.js
> versions that we use. Probably the most serious regression is that NW2, the
> new browser window implementation being used as default in nw.js 0.42.4 and
> later, has some severe performance problems with dynamic code execution in
> the JavaScript interpreter. This makes rendering dynamic svg graphics on
> the canvas (such as array displays and pd-lua graphics) horribly slow,
> which is why both pd-l2ork and purr-data switch nw.js to the old NW1
> implementation. (Ico first discovered this and reported it upstream some
> two years ago, but we still need to produce a minimal example for the issue
> before it will be considered.)
>
> This in turn limits the nw.js versions that we can use, because anything
> past nw.js 0.67.1 has broken window management in NW1 mode. The
> crash-on-exit bug on macOS is also related to the use of NW1 AFAICT.
> Moreover, on Linux, nw.js 0.56.0 and later have another serious bug
> (nwworkingdir not working, which means that file dialogs will open in the
> wrong places) which AFAICT has never been fixed. Which is why I decided to
> go with nw.js 0.55.0 in purr-data 2.20.0, which is pretty much the last
> nw.js version that works without any serious regressions on all major
> platforms.
>
> But note that purr-data also includes a little shell script which lets you
> experiment with different nw.js versions and switch between NW1 and NW2, to
> find out what works best for you. See
> https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation#patching-purr-datas-nwjs.
> (I doubt that the script will work with pd-l2ork as-is, but you can
> probably adjust it if needed, if you know a little shell programming.)
>
> HTH,
> Albert
>
> --
> Dr. Albert Gr"af
> Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
> Email: aggraef at gmail.com, web: https://agraef.github.io/
> _______________________________________________
> L2Ork-dev mailing list
> L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu
> https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> L2Ork-dev mailing list
> L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu
> https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> L2Ork-dev mailing list
> L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu
> https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
>
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From ico at vt.edu  Tue Oct 22 21:39:55 2024
From: ico at vt.edu (Bukvic, Ivica)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 01:39:55 +0000
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
In-Reply-To: <CANOA_5msQN7O4w9LyR7WLcJEZSh7dhwNpenWM_qW6oApZDbzZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+rUic2Zg8Q1DoeTKQDptamPP=Jt_o4ZHFxZuMF71uZPVEseeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANOA_5kJuAt7vWU8kv2AKzoUshcyHVSQ1bJbB2B_Bg0SQmhELw@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB6895B3211373A1371DD0D1D0C7432@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CANOA_5ngwBPhO7p1Vr31_5kdy9bnS_=SB1ShyrXaO++UdnTmfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB68958BED148238C042603BC0C74C2@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CANOA_5msQN7O4w9LyR7WLcJEZSh7dhwNpenWM_qW6oApZDbzZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB6895EA91EC4AF4C54BAFC67DC74D2@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Great! Thanks for this info. I did some googling and was unable to find the source, so this is super helpful. I will include hidraw in the next pd-l2ork release (after I test it on all the platforms, we will probably skip the WebPdL2Ork build since it, by design, would likely violate the browser sandbox).

In the meantime, the way you can build your own version is as follows (this may take a few steps):

  1.
Download and install Xcode from the Apple Store
  2.
go to https://github.com/pd-l2ork/pd-l2ork and follow instructions on how to set up your Mac to be able to compile Pd-L2Ork, but DO NOT compile it (just do steps 1-4, including 4).
  3.
type following commands:

cd externals
git clone https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-hidraw.git
cd pd-hidraw
git submodule update --init --recursive
make PDDIR=../../pd/ PDBINDIR=../../pd/src/

That should build the external in that folder and have the help file in there, as well. Run pd-l2ork and click on open, and try opening the help file in that folder. Check the help file for permission adjustments on a Mac. If it all works, you should be able to embed the external (hidraw.pd_darwin, or whatever it ends up being called) and copy the help file anywhere on your computer, including your projects. You may also need to copy the hidapi subfolder with them.

Let me know if this works. This will speed up my efforts at integrating it into pd-l2ork.

Thanks.

Best,

Ico
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2024 8:02 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Good to know.

As far as HID externals, IEM lists four at https://pd.iem.sh/interface-pd-with/

And among them, only one is listed for Linux, macOS, and Windows, and it's been updated this year (thanks, Lucas Cordiviola): https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-hidraw

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>


On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 7:47?PM Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>> wrote:
Thanks, Jeff. I use those objects periodically and they have never failed me. This is just an old help patch and those comments should be ignored. I will look into adding HID object to the pd-l2ork build. Would you please send me a link to the source? Also, does it work on all OSs?

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>

ci.icat.vt.edu<http://ci.icat.vt.edu/>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu<http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/>
ico.bukvic.net<http://ico.bukvic.net/>
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu>> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org<mailto:jeff at morrismusic.org>>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2024 4:08:07 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu> <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Thanks. [legacy_mouseclick] and [legacy_mousemotion] work for me if I delete the full path from the name. However, I wonder how worried I should be about those messages in their help patchers saying things like "old legacy," "isn't stable," and "Don't depend on it."

If there's a more appropriate way to get the mouse data, I'd like to know it. And I am still curious about HID control, whenever someone gets a chance to pipe in.

Thanks,

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>


On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 12:51?PM Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>> wrote:
For mouse you should use legacy_mouse or something like that. I will look it up once I am back at the computer.

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>

ci.icat.vt.edu<http://ci.icat.vt.edu/>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu<http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/>
ico.bukvic.net<http://ico.bukvic.net/>
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu>> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org<mailto:jeff at morrismusic.org>>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2024 1:16:51 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu> <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Thank, Albert and Ico,

This is enlightening information about the lower-level state of things.

So what do you guys use to get game controllers to work with your patches if not [hid]?

Any idea what's up with [cyclone/mousestate]? It loads without error but never produces any output, and I don't see anything in the DevTools console. Clicking [poll( sometimes produces these messages in the Pd console:

legacy tcl command at 473 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: global hammergui_ispolling
legacy tcl command at 474 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: set hammergui_ispolling 1
legacy tcl command at 475 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: hammergui_poll

And yes, for Purr-Data 2.20, I tried removing the quarantine attribute first and it wasn't until I used spctl that I got it to work.

Thanks,

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>


On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 2:57?AM Albert Graef <aggraef at gmail.com<mailto:aggraef at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Jeff,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 7:15?PM Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org<mailto:jeff at morrismusic.org>> wrote:
I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using sudo spctl --master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon quitting. The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.

Completely disabling Gatekeeper shouldn't be necessary. At least with the latest 2.20.0 version, just removing the com.apple.quarantine attribute after installation should be enough (cf. https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation):
sudo xattr -r -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/Purr-Data.app

The nw.js crash-on-exit is a known bug: https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/issues/44. You can work around the annoying popup message from the OS as described in the ticket. Other than that, this bug is mostly harmless since the nw.js crash happens after purr-data already went through its entire finalization sequence. And you can also avoid the bug by closing all patch windows before exiting the program. At least that works for me on Big Sur (old Intel MB) and Sonoma (MB M1), your mileage may vary.

As Ico already pointed out, there are various issues with the nw.js versions that we use. Probably the most serious regression is that NW2, the new browser window implementation being used as default in nw.js 0.42.4 and later, has some severe performance problems with dynamic code execution in the JavaScript interpreter. This makes rendering dynamic svg graphics on the canvas (such as array displays and pd-lua graphics) horribly slow, which is why both pd-l2ork and purr-data switch nw.js to the old NW1 implementation. (Ico first discovered this and reported it upstream some two years ago, but we still need to produce a minimal example for the issue before it will be considered.)

This in turn limits the nw.js versions that we can use, because anything past nw.js 0.67.1 has broken window management in NW1 mode. The crash-on-exit bug on macOS is also related to the use of NW1 AFAICT. Moreover, on Linux, nw.js 0.56.0 and later have another serious bug (nwworkingdir not working, which means that file dialogs will open in the wrong places) which AFAICT has never been fixed. Which is why I decided to go with nw.js 0.55.0 in purr-data 2.20.0, which is pretty much the last nw.js version that works without any serious regressions on all major platforms.

But note that purr-data also includes a little shell script which lets you experiment with different nw.js versions and switch between NW1 and NW2, to find out what works best for you. See https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation#patching-purr-datas-nwjs. (I doubt that the script will work with pd-l2ork as-is, but you can probably adjust it if needed, if you know a little shell programming.)

HTH,
Albert

--
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
Email: aggraef at gmail.com<mailto:aggraef at gmail.com>, web: https://agraef.github.io/
_______________________________________________
L2Ork-dev mailing list
L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
_______________________________________________
L2Ork-dev mailing list
L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
_______________________________________________
L2Ork-dev mailing list
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From ico at vt.edu  Tue Oct 22 22:27:18 2024
From: ico at vt.edu (Bukvic, Ivica)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 02:27:18 +0000
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB6895EA91EC4AF4C54BAFC67DC74D2@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+rUic2Zg8Q1DoeTKQDptamPP=Jt_o4ZHFxZuMF71uZPVEseeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANOA_5kJuAt7vWU8kv2AKzoUshcyHVSQ1bJbB2B_Bg0SQmhELw@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB6895B3211373A1371DD0D1D0C7432@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CANOA_5ngwBPhO7p1Vr31_5kdy9bnS_=SB1ShyrXaO++UdnTmfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB68958BED148238C042603BC0C74C2@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CANOA_5msQN7O4w9LyR7WLcJEZSh7dhwNpenWM_qW6oApZDbzZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB6895EA91EC4AF4C54BAFC67DC74D2@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB68959550DA11E4D8ED901022C74D2@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

You may have to adjust the PDBINDIR=../../pd/bin or just leave it out from that command.

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu

ci.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net

________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2024 9:40:11 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Great! Thanks for this info. I did some googling and was unable to find the source, so this is super helpful. I will include hidraw in the next pd-l2ork release (after I test it on all the platforms, we will probably skip the WebPdL2Ork build since it, by design, would likely violate the browser sandbox).

In the meantime, the way you can build your own version is as follows (this may take a few steps):

  1.
Download and install Xcode from the Apple Store
  2.
go to https://github.com/pd-l2ork/pd-l2ork and follow instructions on how to set up your Mac to be able to compile Pd-L2Ork, but DO NOT compile it (just do steps 1-4, including 4).
  3.
type following commands:

cd externals
git clone https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-hidraw.git
cd pd-hidraw
git submodule update --init --recursive
make PDDIR=../../pd/ PDBINDIR=../../pd/src/

That should build the external in that folder and have the help file in there, as well. Run pd-l2ork and click on open, and try opening the help file in that folder. Check the help file for permission adjustments on a Mac. If it all works, you should be able to embed the external (hidraw.pd_darwin, or whatever it ends up being called) and copy the help file anywhere on your computer, including your projects. You may also need to copy the hidapi subfolder with them.

Let me know if this works. This will speed up my efforts at integrating it into pd-l2ork.

Thanks.

Best,

Ico
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2024 8:02 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Good to know.

As far as HID externals, IEM lists four at https://pd.iem.sh/interface-pd-with/

And among them, only one is listed for Linux, macOS, and Windows, and it's been updated this year (thanks, Lucas Cordiviola): https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-hidraw

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>


On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 7:47?PM Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>> wrote:
Thanks, Jeff. I use those objects periodically and they have never failed me. This is just an old help patch and those comments should be ignored. I will look into adding HID object to the pd-l2ork build. Would you please send me a link to the source? Also, does it work on all OSs?

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>

ci.icat.vt.edu<http://ci.icat.vt.edu/>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu<http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/>
ico.bukvic.net<http://ico.bukvic.net/>
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu>> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org<mailto:jeff at morrismusic.org>>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2024 4:08:07 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu> <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Thanks. [legacy_mouseclick] and [legacy_mousemotion] work for me if I delete the full path from the name. However, I wonder how worried I should be about those messages in their help patchers saying things like "old legacy," "isn't stable," and "Don't depend on it."

If there's a more appropriate way to get the mouse data, I'd like to know it. And I am still curious about HID control, whenever someone gets a chance to pipe in.

Thanks,

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>


On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 12:51?PM Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>> wrote:
For mouse you should use legacy_mouse or something like that. I will look it up once I am back at the computer.

Best,

Ico
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts ? 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu<mailto:ico at vt.edu>

ci.icat.vt.edu<http://ci.icat.vt.edu/>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu<http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/>
ico.bukvic.net<http://ico.bukvic.net/>
________________________________
From: L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu>> on behalf of Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org<mailto:jeff at morrismusic.org>>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2024 1:16:51 PM
To: l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu> <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>>
Subject: Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up

Thank, Albert and Ico,

This is enlightening information about the lower-level state of things.

So what do you guys use to get game controllers to work with your patches if not [hid]?

Any idea what's up with [cyclone/mousestate]? It loads without error but never produces any output, and I don't see anything in the DevTools console. Clicking [poll( sometimes produces these messages in the Pd console:

legacy tcl command at 473 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: global hammergui_ispolling
legacy tcl command at 474 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: set hammergui_ispolling 1
legacy tcl command at 475 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: hammergui_poll

And yes, for Purr-Data 2.20, I tried removing the quarantine attribute first and it wasn't until I used spctl that I got it to work.

Thanks,

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org<http://morrismusic.org/>
http://weblogmusic.org<http://weblogmusic.org/>


On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 2:57?AM Albert Graef <aggraef at gmail.com<mailto:aggraef at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Jeff,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 7:15?PM Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org<mailto:jeff at morrismusic.org>> wrote:
I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using sudo spctl --master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon quitting. The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.

Completely disabling Gatekeeper shouldn't be necessary. At least with the latest 2.20.0 version, just removing the com.apple.quarantine attribute after installation should be enough (cf. https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation):
sudo xattr -r -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/Purr-Data.app

The nw.js crash-on-exit is a known bug: https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/issues/44. You can work around the annoying popup message from the OS as described in the ticket. Other than that, this bug is mostly harmless since the nw.js crash happens after purr-data already went through its entire finalization sequence. And you can also avoid the bug by closing all patch windows before exiting the program. At least that works for me on Big Sur (old Intel MB) and Sonoma (MB M1), your mileage may vary.

As Ico already pointed out, there are various issues with the nw.js versions that we use. Probably the most serious regression is that NW2, the new browser window implementation being used as default in nw.js 0.42.4 and later, has some severe performance problems with dynamic code execution in the JavaScript interpreter. This makes rendering dynamic svg graphics on the canvas (such as array displays and pd-lua graphics) horribly slow, which is why both pd-l2ork and purr-data switch nw.js to the old NW1 implementation. (Ico first discovered this and reported it upstream some two years ago, but we still need to produce a minimal example for the issue before it will be considered.)

This in turn limits the nw.js versions that we can use, because anything past nw.js 0.67.1 has broken window management in NW1 mode. The crash-on-exit bug on macOS is also related to the use of NW1 AFAICT. Moreover, on Linux, nw.js 0.56.0 and later have another serious bug (nwworkingdir not working, which means that file dialogs will open in the wrong places) which AFAICT has never been fixed. Which is why I decided to go with nw.js 0.55.0 in purr-data 2.20.0, which is pretty much the last nw.js version that works without any serious regressions on all major platforms.

But note that purr-data also includes a little shell script which lets you experiment with different nw.js versions and switch between NW1 and NW2, to find out what works best for you. See https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation#patching-purr-datas-nwjs. (I doubt that the script will work with pd-l2ork as-is, but you can probably adjust it if needed, if you know a little shell programming.)

HTH,
Albert

--
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
Email: aggraef at gmail.com<mailto:aggraef at gmail.com>, web: https://agraef.github.io/
_______________________________________________
L2Ork-dev mailing list
L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
_______________________________________________
L2Ork-dev mailing list
L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
_______________________________________________
L2Ork-dev mailing list
L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu<mailto:L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
https://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev

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From jeff at morrismusic.org  Sun Oct 27 13:58:27 2024
From: jeff at morrismusic.org (Jeff Morris)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2024 12:58:27 -0500
Subject: [L2Ork-dev] =?utf-8?q?Won=E2=80=99t_finish_starting_up?=
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB68959550DA11E4D8ED901022C74D2@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CANOA_5nEUUCHxBf4M_px294-Zi=zTE+2Ox1PnOmJNOgRTwpu=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+rUic2Zg8Q1DoeTKQDptamPP=Jt_o4ZHFxZuMF71uZPVEseeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANOA_5kJuAt7vWU8kv2AKzoUshcyHVSQ1bJbB2B_Bg0SQmhELw@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB6895B3211373A1371DD0D1D0C7432@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CANOA_5ngwBPhO7p1Vr31_5kdy9bnS_=SB1ShyrXaO++UdnTmfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB68958BED148238C042603BC0C74C2@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CANOA_5msQN7O4w9LyR7WLcJEZSh7dhwNpenWM_qW6oApZDbzZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <MN2PR05MB6895EA91EC4AF4C54BAFC67DC74D2@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <MN2PR05MB68959550DA11E4D8ED901022C74D2@MN2PR05MB6895.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CANOA_5=-EgdWWF8BFGGUES0WwYMfg59mqhy57quc_kUSMzy8XQ@mail.gmail.com>

Whew! I finally got [hidraw] working. At first, it was compiled as arm64
but my Pd install was x86_64 running in Rosetta 2 (apparently). Trying to
compile Pd-L2Ork for arm64 threw up enough hurdles that I tried leaving Pd
alone and bringing [hidraw] to align with it. I set it to x86_64 by using
the line

make PDDIR=../../pd/ PDBINDIR=../../pd/src/
CFLAGS="-I/usr/local/include/hidapi -arch x86_64" LDFLAGS="-arch x86_64"

and I also had to quit and restart Pd at the right time to keep it from
relying on old cached things that were causing errors.

Anyhow, [hidraw] appears to be working properly now!


By the way, regarding my original problem when I couldn't run Pd, it was
odd that deleting a plist file seemed to be the fix when I definitely had
done that previously while troubleshooting.

It turns out there were two plist files to watch for, one starting with org
and one starting with net, so they weren't next to each other in
Preferences:

net.pd-l2ork.nwjs.plist
org.puredata.pd-l2ork.plist

Hope that helps someone in the future.

Thanks for all your help,

?

Jeff Morris
http://morrismusic.org
http://weblogmusic.org


On Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 9:27?PM Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu> wrote:

> You may have to adjust the PDBINDIR=../../pd/bin or just leave it out from
> that command.
>
> Best,
>
> Ico
> --
> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
> Director, Creativity + Innovation
> Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology
>
> Virginia Tech
> Creative Technologies in Music
> School of Performing Arts ? 0141
> Blacksburg, VA 24061
> (540) 231-6139
> ico at vt.edu
>
> ci.icat.vt.edu
> l2ork.icat.vt.edu
> ico.bukvic.net
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 22, 2024 9:40:11 PM
> *To:* l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up
>
> Great! Thanks for this info. I did some googling and was unable to find
> the source, so this is super helpful. I will include hidraw in the next
> pd-l2ork release (after I test it on all the platforms, we will probably
> skip the WebPdL2Ork build since it, by design, would likely violate the
> browser sandbox).
>
> In the meantime, the way you can build your own version is as follows
> (this may take a few steps):
>
>    1. Download and install Xcode from the Apple Store
>    2. go to https://github.com/pd-l2ork/pd-l2ork and follow instructions
>    on how to set up your Mac to be able to compile Pd-L2Ork, but DO NOT
>    compile it (just do steps 1-4, including 4).
>    3. type following commands:
>
>    cd externals
>    git clone https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-hidraw.git
>    cd pd-hidraw
>    git submodule update --init --recursive
>    make PDDIR=../../pd/ PDBINDIR=../../pd/src/
>
> That should build the external in that folder and have the help file in
> there, as well. Run pd-l2ork and click on open, and try opening the help
> file in that folder. Check the help file for permission adjustments on a
> Mac. If it all works, you should be able to embed the external
> (hidraw.pd_darwin, or whatever it ends up being called) and copy the help
> file anywhere on your computer, including your projects. You may also need
> to copy the hidapi subfolder with them.
>
> Let me know if this works. This will speed up my efforts at integrating it
> into pd-l2ork.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Best,
>
> Ico
> ------------------------------
> *From:* L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 22, 2024 8:02 PM
> *To:* l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up
>
> Good to know.
>
> As far as HID externals, IEM lists four at
> https://pd.iem.sh/interface-pd-with/
>
> And among them, only one is listed for Linux, macOS, and Windows, and it's
> been updated this year (thanks, Lucas Cordiviola):
> https://github.com/Lucarda/pd-hidraw
>
> ?
>
> Jeff Morris
> http://morrismusic.org
> http://weblogmusic.org
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 7:47?PM Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Jeff. I use those objects periodically and they have never failed
> me. This is just an old help patch and those comments should be ignored. I
> will look into adding HID object to the pd-l2ork build. Would you please
> send me a link to the source? Also, does it work on all OSs?
>
> Best,
>
> Ico
> --
> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
> Director, Creativity + Innovation
> Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology
>
> Virginia Tech
> Creative Technologies in Music
> School of Performing Arts ? 0141
> Blacksburg, VA 24061
> (540) 231-6139
> ico at vt.edu
>
> ci.icat.vt.edu
> l2ork.icat.vt.edu
> ico.bukvic.net
> ------------------------------
> *From:* L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 21, 2024 4:08:07 PM
> *To:* l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up
>
> Thanks. [legacy_mouseclick] and [legacy_mousemotion] work for me if I
> delete the full path from the name. However, I wonder how worried I should
> be about those messages in their help patchers saying things like "old
> legacy," "isn't stable," and "Don't depend on it."
>
> If there's a more appropriate way to get the mouse data, I'd like to know
> it. And I am still curious about HID control, whenever someone gets a
> chance to pipe in.
>
> Thanks,
>
> ?
>
> Jeff Morris
> http://morrismusic.org
> http://weblogmusic.org
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 12:51?PM Bukvic, Ivica <ico at vt.edu> wrote:
>
> For mouse you should use legacy_mouse or something like that. I will look
> it up once I am back at the computer.
>
> Best,
>
> Ico
> --
> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
> Director, Creativity + Innovation
> Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology
>
> Virginia Tech
> Creative Technologies in Music
> School of Performing Arts ? 0141
> Blacksburg, VA 24061
> (540) 231-6139
> ico at vt.edu
>
> ci.icat.vt.edu
> l2ork.icat.vt.edu
> ico.bukvic.net
> ------------------------------
> *From:* L2Ork-dev <l2ork-dev-bounces at disis.music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 21, 2024 1:16:51 PM
> *To:* l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <l2ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [L2Ork-dev] Won?t finish starting up
>
> Thank, Albert and Ico,
>
> This is enlightening information about the lower-level state of things.
>
> So what do you guys use to get game controllers to work with your patches
> if not [hid]?
>
> Any idea what's up with [cyclone/mousestate]? It loads without error but
> never produces any output, and I don't see anything in the DevTools
> console. Clicking [poll( sometimes produces these messages in the Pd
> console:
>
> legacy tcl command at 473 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: global
> hammergui_ispolling
> legacy tcl command at 474 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: set
> hammergui_ispolling 1
> legacy tcl command at 475 of ../shared/hammer/gui.c: hammergui_poll
>
> And yes, for Purr-Data 2.20, I tried removing the quarantine attribute
> first and it wasn't until I used spctl that I got it to work.
>
> Thanks,
>
> ?
>
> Jeff Morris
> http://morrismusic.org
> http://weblogmusic.org
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 2:57?AM Albert Graef <aggraef at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 7:15?PM Jeff Morris <jeff at morrismusic.org> wrote:
>
> I was able to get Purr-Data working finally using sudo spctl
> --master-disable and it mostly works okay, except that it crashed upon
> quitting. The macOS console crash log shows the following. Looks like a
> memory segmentation fault experienced by nwjs.
>
>
> Completely disabling Gatekeeper shouldn't be necessary. At least with the
> latest 2.20.0 version, just removing the com.apple.quarantine attribute
> after installation should be enough (cf.
> https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation):
> sudo xattr -r -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/Purr-Data.app
>
> The nw.js crash-on-exit is a known bug:
> https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/issues/44. You can work around the
> annoying popup message from the OS as described in the ticket. Other than
> that, this bug is mostly harmless since the nw.js crash happens after
> purr-data already went through its entire finalization sequence. And you
> can also avoid the bug by closing all patch windows before exiting the
> program. At least that works for me on Big Sur (old Intel MB) and Sonoma
> (MB M1), your mileage may vary.
>
> As Ico already pointed out, there are various issues with the nw.js
> versions that we use. Probably the most serious regression is that NW2, the
> new browser window implementation being used as default in nw.js 0.42.4 and
> later, has some severe performance problems with dynamic code execution in
> the JavaScript interpreter. This makes rendering dynamic svg graphics on
> the canvas (such as array displays and pd-lua graphics) horribly slow,
> which is why both pd-l2ork and purr-data switch nw.js to the old NW1
> implementation. (Ico first discovered this and reported it upstream some
> two years ago, but we still need to produce a minimal example for the issue
> before it will be considered.)
>
> This in turn limits the nw.js versions that we can use, because anything
> past nw.js 0.67.1 has broken window management in NW1 mode. The
> crash-on-exit bug on macOS is also related to the use of NW1 AFAICT.
> Moreover, on Linux, nw.js 0.56.0 and later have another serious bug
> (nwworkingdir not working, which means that file dialogs will open in the
> wrong places) which AFAICT has never been fixed. Which is why I decided to
> go with nw.js 0.55.0 in purr-data 2.20.0, which is pretty much the last
> nw.js version that works without any serious regressions on all major
> platforms.
>
> But note that purr-data also includes a little shell script which lets you
> experiment with different nw.js versions and switch between NW1 and NW2, to
> find out what works best for you. See
> https://github.com/agraef/purr-data/wiki/Installation#patching-purr-datas-nwjs.
> (I doubt that the script will work with pd-l2ork as-is, but you can
> probably adjust it if needed, if you know a little shell programming.)
>
> HTH,
> Albert
>
> --
> Dr. Albert Gr"af
> Computer Music Research Group, JGU Mainz, Germany
> Email: aggraef at gmail.com, web: https://agraef.github.io/
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