[L2Ork-dev] a couple of questions

Wed Sep 17 11:55:31 UTC 2014

Hi Ivica, hi all,

I found one more compatibility problem between pd-l2Ork and pd-extended. 
This time it is related to displaying arrays. In pd-extended, there are 
three ways of graphing arrays: Points, Polygon, Beziercurve. Here is 
what is happening:

- if an array is saved as "points" in pd-extended, it will open as 
"polygon" in pd-l2Ork
- if an array is saved as "polygon" in pd-extended, it will open as 
"points" in pd-l2Ork
- if an array is saved as "beziercurve" in pd-extended, it will open as 
"polygon" in pd-l2Ork

Here is an image of a same file opened in both programs at the same 
time: 
http://s29.postimg.org/7cadlxxqf/Screenshot_from_2014_09_17_13_46_40.png

This issue particularly influences the object [spectrogram~] from the 
jmmmp library, since it is displayed as "points" now in pd-l2Ork (which 
is arguably worse), and the user cannot fix it by himself unless he 
launches pd-l2Ork as root.

And just one last comment: I do hope that these e-mails about bugs 
and/or suggestions that I have been sending to this list lately are not 
"flooding" you all with small issues. If you feel that these issues are 
not relevant at the present time or if there is a better way of 
reporting bugs and small inconsistencies, please let me know. My main 
intention when writing here is to collaborate in order to improve pd-l2Ork.

Best,
Gilberto

On 15/09/14 22:34, Gilberto Agostinho wrote:
> Hi Ivica,
>
> As for the other e-mail, here are my comments:
>
> - I understand your approach of implementing things into the core of 
> the code, but I believe that allowing users to write tcl plugins allow 
> them to greatly customize their installation, as well as share 
> interesting solutions. Nevertheless, here is a short demo of the 
> completion-plugin and category-menu-plugin I mentioned before, which I 
> believe could be very beneficial to pd-l2ork (you probably have to 
> watch it in HD in order to be able to read, I recorded the whole 
> desktop and not only pd's window): 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO8Zi_Ae_-I
>
> - another interesting plugin is the full screen plugin, which allows 
> full screen use by hitting F11 on the keyboard
>
> - If I manually change the file .pdl2ork, then I am able to add 
> folders to the path. I wonder why I can't do it via pd-l2Ork.
>
> - Still about settings that are not saved: if I change the colour 
> scheme and then I restart pd-l2Ork, it reverts back to the default 
> colours. It also would be nice to allow users to save their presets, 
> since you let them change the colours themselves and it would be 
> frustrating to spend time preparing your own palette only to lose it 
> next time.
>
> - pity about initialization of JACK, but that's totally 
> understandable. In the end, one needs only two extra clicks to start 
> it manually.
>
> - I already wrote about [gcanvas] on my previous e-mail, but just 
> restating: part of ggee, default with pd-extended.
>
> - As for [prepend] vs [list prepend], I think it could be nice to 
> leave obsolete objects in order to maximize compatibility (I have seen 
> many patches using [prepend]). On top of that, I believe that 
> [prepend] works not only with lists, but also with any strings, and it 
> is very useful to set a value to a message box (I requires one less 
> object to do this job). Have a look: 
> http://s12.postimg.org/f45zkztx9/foobar.png - or am I missing 
> something here?
>
> Thanks a lot for all the commenting of my questions, I really 
> appreciate your time and the effort put on Pd-l2Ork. If there is 
> anything I can do to help out, please let me know.
>
> Best,
> Gilberto
>
> On 15/09/14 18:54, Ivica Bukvic wrote:
>>
>> Again, thank you for the update as well as for kind words re: 
>> pd-l2ork, Gilberto. Please see my comments below.
>>
>> On Sep 15, 2014 10:54 AM, "Gilberto Agostinho" 
>> <gilbertohasnofb at googlemail.com 
>> <mailto:gilbertohasnofb at googlemail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello list,
>> >
>> > So after successfully installing pd-2lok side-by-side with 
>> pd-extended, I am finally playing around with it. I am extremely 
>> impressed by it, the new features are absolutely stunning! That said, 
>> I do have a couple of questions/comments about it, and I hope this is 
>> the right place to ask them (I tried the main Pure Data forum, but I 
>> think not many users there are working with pd-l2Ork).
>>
>> Either place is fine, although perhaps this one is a bit more 
>> appropriate.
>>
>> >
>> > - Pd-l2Ork does not seem to recognize nor execute any of my 
>> *-plugin.tcl files (pd-extended automatically does it for any file 
>> ending with -plugin.tcl). Is this feature not yet supported? If so, 
>> is there any plan to implement it? It would be a huge pity to live 
>> without it, since there are great tcl plugins available for pure 
>> data, such as auto-completition, full screen by pressing F11 and one 
>> called category_menu-plugin.tcl (this last one is my absolutely 
>> favourite).
>>
>> We haven't implemented plugins as we prefer to implement things into 
>> the core of pd-l2ork and also because we are looking to migrate gui 
>> to qt soon which will obsolete a large number of tk-specific 
>> workarounds. Pd-l2ork already supports more flexible implementations 
>> of some of the plugins, like hide menu which in pd-l2ork can be done 
>> per canvas rather than only globally for the entire pd  instance. I 
>> am not familiar what plugins you listed do beyond what you mentioned 
>> above, so if you think these should be a part of pd-l2ork, we can 
>> certainly look into it.
>>
>> >
>> > - I am not able to add a new folder to pd-l2Ork's path. To be more 
>> exact: I do manage to add it, but then when I restart Pd-l2Ork (so 
>> all externals would be reloaded) the folder is not on its path and 
>> the abstractions there contained cannot be loaded. How can one edit 
>> the path?
>>
>> Did you try changing .pdl2ork file in your home folder? That is what 
>> it uses for its user-specific settings file.
>>
>> >
>> > - Is it possible for pd-l2Ork to automatically start JACK by itself 
>> as pd-extended does? Now I have to manually open QjackCtrl, start 
>> JACK and then start pd-l2Ork
>>
>> As of right now, unfortunately no, mainly because so far it seemed 
>> better to have full control over how many channels jack should start 
>> and how they should connect to pd-l2ork, than deal with default 
>> connections that only work in limited situations. As always, we are 
>> open to alternative implementations, but as it seems right now it is 
>> a choice of either using the incomplete implementation or 
>> reimplementing everything tools like qjackctl does which seems 
>> awfully redundant.
>>
>> >
>> > - [gcanvas] : this very nice pd-extended GUI object is missing, and 
>> I believe quite a lot of abstractions use it (I found that even some 
>> of GEM tutorials included in pd-l2ork have it)
>>
>> We build Gem from the latest git. I unfortunately have not tested all 
>> its patches so if this is something we should have (and it certainly 
>> seems so), we will gladly add it to the next release. I could use 
>> more info about that object as I do not use extended or vanilla. 
>> Namely, is it a core object or a third-party external and if so to 
>> which lib does it belong to?
>>
>> >
>> > - [prepend] : very useful pd-extended object (part of cyclone) is 
>> also missing. Why wasn't this library included in this release? I 
>> copied it from the pd-extended folder and it worked perfectly well.
>>
>> This is a part of continual work to prune redundant objects from 
>> pd-l2ork.  [list prepend] is a perfect alternative and I have built 
>> an abstraction using it to replace prepend (unfortunately I have not 
>> included it with the release, which I probably should--perhaps we 
>> could have a legacy folder with externals considers obsolete?). This 
>> may prove a slight frustration in the interim until we provide an 
>> online resource for legacy externals, but in the long run I hope you 
>> will agree it will result in a healthier ecosystem with no redundant 
>> objects and therefore less confusion.
>>
>> Hope this helps!
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks a lot in advance.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Gilberto
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu <mailto:L2Ork-dev at disis.music.vt.edu>
>> > http://disis.music.vt.edu/listinfo/l2ork-dev
>>
>>
>>
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